4 ms·

James Cameron is extremely critical of the design of the sub, and of Rush's attitude [0]. He says that carbon fiber was a very poor choice and that it had been

by bambax 3y ago

James Cameron is extremely critical of the design of the sub, and of Rush's attitude [0]. He says that carbon fiber was a very poor choice and that it had been known for a very long time, and that "deep submerged diving is a mature art". If you think you're going to reinvent the wheel and bypass regulatory bodies and ignore subject experts, and move fast and break things, you're delusional. Any baby can break things; any toddler can break rules. What's hard is to discover new rules, make things that don't break. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rThZLhNF_xg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rThZLhNF_xg

jacquesm 3y ago
Exactly. What really gets me is that he would subject passengers - one of which is a teenager - to this kind of risk. It really gets me, that kid probably had absolutely no clue about the real level of risk involved. Carbon is fantastic stuff if used properly, used improperly it will seem to be perfect right up to the point where it fails catastrophically.
- bambax 3y ago
  The kid's father seems to bear a lot of responsibility in his son's demise. > In the days before the Titan vessel went into the ocean off the coast of Newfoundland, Canada, the 19-year-old university student accompanying his father on the expedition expressed hesitation about going, his aunt said Thursday in an interview. > Azmeh Dawood — the older sister of Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood — told NBC News that her nephew, Suleman, informed a relative that he "wasn't very up for it" and felt "terrified" about the trip to explore the wreckage of the Titanic. > But the 19-year-old ended up going aboard OceanGate's 22-foot submersible because the trip fell over Father's Day weekend and he was eager to please his dad, who was passionate about the lore of the Titanic, according to Azmeh. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/titanic-submersible-shahwood-suleman-family-tragedy-rcna90678 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/titanic-submersible-shahw...
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Ugh, that's so sad. Dying to please your old man. He seems to have had the best intuition about the safety risks involved then.
    - d1str0 3y ago
      That or he still thought it was safe but was scared regardless. Even though everyone knows flying commercially is incredibly safe, lots of people are still anxious about it. Its not like this kid, or maybe any of the other customers, knew of any of the safety concerns and just thought it was as safe as flying.
      - AmericanOP 3y ago
        Flying commercial is safe. Its also good to remember the titanium wings bear the full weight of the plane.
        bandyaboot 3y ago
        Almost the full weight. The fuselage typically contributes in the neighborhood of 10% of the lift.
        happycube 3y ago
        50% of the wings on a 787 are carbon fiber. Which was tested far above loads before failing. When corners aren't cut building the planes, and Boeing has never cut corn... oh, crud.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - dr_dshiv 3y ago
      Sad, maybe. Seems like one of the best ways to go. Respect.
      - bandyaboot 3y ago
- beachy 3y ago
  A few weeks ago there was a tragic caving accident at a local school here where a boy drowned when the outdoor adventure group entered the caves even as flood waters were rising from a storm. I told my 10 year old son that one day his life might depend on being able to recognise danger and not follow the herd. I said that might mean you staying out of the cave even if the teacher and all the other students went in, called you names, etc. He rightly pointed out that would be almost impossible such is the power of peer pressure. Still I hope if that day comes he remembers it.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    You are right and your son is also right. As a father of sons I share your concerns and I hope that I'm able to give them the capability to withstand that peer pressure. I've been - and still am - subject to this on account of not drinking alcohol, smoking or using drugs. To the point that it becomes ridiculous ('don't be boring'). This has been a recurring thing since my teenage years and I really don't get why people feel the need to pressure others into joining them in their stupidity. Just like I don't push them to behave like I do. But it's been tough, on occasion and I can see the point that your son makes, and I hope with you that if that day comes that he will remember it. FWIW you can tell him this internet stranger agrees with his dad and that peer pressure can be overcome.
  - babyshake 3y ago
    > A few weeks ago there was a tragic caving accident at a local school here where a boy drowned when the outdoor adventure group entered the caves even as flood waters were rising from a storm. That's awful, and if there's one thing that I learned from Thai cave rescue a few years ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tham_Luang_cave_rescue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tham_Luang_cave_rescue) it's that you never want to go swimming in caves when it might start raining.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    I write about the propensity of adolescents worldwide to take unreasonable risks in here: https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/how-about-not-overcoming-fear https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/how-about-not-overcoming... it isn't just Americans or even First Worlders. In some cultures they're not able to do it, but they all want to. And it's -- guess what? -- peer pressure that makes them do it. Brain scans show that they recognize the danger as well as adults do, but they're more susceptible to the peer pressure. It's ok to be afraid. No one had to go down to 12,500 feet to see the Titanic.
- pengaru 3y ago
  > Carbon is fantastic stuff if used properly, used improperly it will seem to be perfect right up to the point where it fails catastrophically. It blows my mind that anyone thought it was a good idea to make a deep-sea submersible out of the stuff. Carbon's tendency to abruptly fail without warning was a source of significant anxiety whenever I'd go riding the more aggressive trails on my ibis mojo hd3. And that wasn't a certain death outcome should the carbon let go...
  - davidw 3y ago
    Also people have been making bikes out of carbon for a while and reputable brands know what they're doing.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      And even then. If you buy a carbon bike second hand (which I would advise against) you'll have to do an absolutely minute inspection to ensure there are no cracks, especially the front fork and all the places where there are inserts are excellent spots for hairline cracks to develop.
mirko22 3y ago
I suppose it is easier to move fast and break things when all you need to do is post pictures of cats, but diving to 4km depth you only get to break once I’m afraid
agumonkey 3y ago
How costly was Cameron venture ? it seems so strange to see a crew die in conditions that were already mastered, with near no added benefits.
cactusplant7374 3y ago
Cameron says the sub had sensors that would detect if the sub was starting to delaminate. He says the sub was trying to return because they probably had a warning. How terrifying.

by bambax 3y ago

jacquesm 3y ago

Exactly. What really gets me is that he would subject passengers - one of which is a teenager - to this kind of risk. It really gets me, that kid probably had absolutely no clue about the real level of risk involved. Carbon is fantastic stuff if used properly, used improperly it will seem to be perfect right up to the point where it fails catastrophically.

bambax 3y ago
The kid's father seems to bear a lot of responsibility in his son's demise. > In the days before the Titan vessel went into the ocean off the coast of Newfoundland, Canada, the 19-year-old university student accompanying his father on the expedition expressed hesitation about going, his aunt said Thursday in an interview. > Azmeh Dawood — the older sister of Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood — told NBC News that her nephew, Suleman, informed a relative that he "wasn't very up for it" and felt "terrified" about the trip to explore the wreckage of the Titanic. > But the 19-year-old ended up going aboard OceanGate's 22-foot submersible because the trip fell over Father's Day weekend and he was eager to please his dad, who was passionate about the lore of the Titanic, according to Azmeh. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/titanic-submersible-shahwood-suleman-family-tragedy-rcna90678 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/titanic-submersible-shahw...
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Ugh, that's so sad. Dying to please your old man. He seems to have had the best intuition about the safety risks involved then.
  - d1str0 3y ago
    That or he still thought it was safe but was scared regardless. Even though everyone knows flying commercially is incredibly safe, lots of people are still anxious about it. Its not like this kid, or maybe any of the other customers, knew of any of the safety concerns and just thought it was as safe as flying.
    - AmericanOP 3y ago
      Flying commercial is safe. Its also good to remember the titanium wings bear the full weight of the plane.
      - bandyaboot 3y ago
        Almost the full weight. The fuselage typically contributes in the neighborhood of 10% of the lift.
      - happycube 3y ago
        50% of the wings on a 787 are carbon fiber. Which was tested far above loads before failing. When corners aren't cut building the planes, and Boeing has never cut corn... oh, crud.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - dr_dshiv 3y ago
    Sad, maybe. Seems like one of the best ways to go. Respect.
    - bandyaboot 3y ago
beachy 3y ago
A few weeks ago there was a tragic caving accident at a local school here where a boy drowned when the outdoor adventure group entered the caves even as flood waters were rising from a storm. I told my 10 year old son that one day his life might depend on being able to recognise danger and not follow the herd. I said that might mean you staying out of the cave even if the teacher and all the other students went in, called you names, etc. He rightly pointed out that would be almost impossible such is the power of peer pressure. Still I hope if that day comes he remembers it.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  You are right and your son is also right. As a father of sons I share your concerns and I hope that I'm able to give them the capability to withstand that peer pressure. I've been - and still am - subject to this on account of not drinking alcohol, smoking or using drugs. To the point that it becomes ridiculous ('don't be boring'). This has been a recurring thing since my teenage years and I really don't get why people feel the need to pressure others into joining them in their stupidity. Just like I don't push them to behave like I do. But it's been tough, on occasion and I can see the point that your son makes, and I hope with you that if that day comes that he will remember it. FWIW you can tell him this internet stranger agrees with his dad and that peer pressure can be overcome.
- babyshake 3y ago
  > A few weeks ago there was a tragic caving accident at a local school here where a boy drowned when the outdoor adventure group entered the caves even as flood waters were rising from a storm. That's awful, and if there's one thing that I learned from Thai cave rescue a few years ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tham_Luang_cave_rescue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tham_Luang_cave_rescue) it's that you never want to go swimming in caves when it might start raining.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  I write about the propensity of adolescents worldwide to take unreasonable risks in here: https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/how-about-not-overcoming-fear https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/how-about-not-overcoming... it isn't just Americans or even First Worlders. In some cultures they're not able to do it, but they all want to. And it's -- guess what? -- peer pressure that makes them do it. Brain scans show that they recognize the danger as well as adults do, but they're more susceptible to the peer pressure. It's ok to be afraid. No one had to go down to 12,500 feet to see the Titanic.
pengaru 3y ago
> Carbon is fantastic stuff if used properly, used improperly it will seem to be perfect right up to the point where it fails catastrophically. It blows my mind that anyone thought it was a good idea to make a deep-sea submersible out of the stuff. Carbon's tendency to abruptly fail without warning was a source of significant anxiety whenever I'd go riding the more aggressive trails on my ibis mojo hd3. And that wasn't a certain death outcome should the carbon let go...
- davidw 3y ago
  Also people have been making bikes out of carbon for a while and reputable brands know what they're doing.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    And even then. If you buy a carbon bike second hand (which I would advise against) you'll have to do an absolutely minute inspection to ensure there are no cracks, especially the front fork and all the places where there are inserts are excellent spots for hairline cracks to develop.

mirko22 3y ago

I suppose it is easier to move fast and break things when all you need to do is post pictures of cats, but diving to 4km depth you only get to break once I’m afraid

agumonkey 3y ago

How costly was Cameron venture ? it seems so strange to see a crew die in conditions that were already mastered, with near no added benefits.

cactusplant7374 3y ago

Cameron says the sub had sensors that would detect if the sub was starting to delaminate. He says the sub was trying to return because they probably had a warning. How terrifying.