6 ms·

In US, I feel like I am always in phase 1. While I am very well in the top 5% in terms of wealth, I also feel I am only one serious illness away from bankruptcy

by vaidhy 3y ago

In US, I feel like I am always in phase 1. While I am very well in the top 5% in terms of wealth, I also feel I am only one serious illness away from bankruptcy and that is stressing me out. If comfortable retirement (living a middle class life) is only available to people with a multi-million dollar retirement fund, I see no purpose in even aiming for a retirement in US.

asjfka 3y ago
TBH There is something indecent in being wealthier than 95% of population and still worrying about oneself. I think I'll puke.
- zo1 3y ago
  Having interacted with "poor" people recently way more than I have in the past. I realized that one very quickly adapts and forgets that life below a certain level of "income" is indeed possible. It's made me look at all the places in my life where all that "money" is being sucked away from me. Silly examples like that convenient 4$ Starbucks coffee on the way to work, or at the ground floor of your office building. It's easy, simple, delicious, and just a tap of a card to get. But poor people aren't able to do this, heck, they forego such things and simply drink water. Apply this kind of thing to a myriad of things that happen daily (and monthly as they come off your bank account).
JohnFen 3y ago
> I see no purpose in even aiming for a retirement in US. Welcome to the sad club. Retirement age is within sight for me and my friends, and most of my circle is not in a position to be able to retire.
- acover 3y ago
  What is retirement age to you? 65?
  - nradov 3y ago
    Full US Social Security retirement age is 67. That might be raised again by the time that younger people become eligible.
    - vuln 3y ago
      Hell they tell me straight up I’ll only ever get a maximum of 80% of what I put in. I’m sure that percentage will be reduced in the next 40 years…
      - jxramos 3y ago
        there was a financial advisor at Apple who gave talks to employees and iirc they did mention that they used a rough percentage for advising clients with for what to expect from Social Security. It may have been 2/3 or 3/4 or 70%. I don't think it was as high as 80.
        lotsofpulp 3y ago
        Social security benefits can be devalued in many ways. Expect future governments to: 1) increase retirement age 2) reduce purchasing power of money (print/issue/lend out excess money, resulting in inflation) 3) adjust “bend” points in SS benefit formula, making it more and more of a marginal income tax
    - Buttons840 3y ago
      Call me a pessimist, but I wouldn't be surprised if in the coming years Social Security age is increased while life expectancy declines.
      - Alupis 3y ago
        Only a fool would depend 100% on Social Security for retirement. Start early, and start young. Get a job that offers a retirement plan - even fast food chains do this now. Get the maximum match possible - it snowballs so much faster than people think. Don't count on the government to provide for you. That is a serious tactical error. Plan as-if Social Security will not be there. Then, if you get anything at all, it's just gravy.
spondylosaurus 3y ago
Maybe not much consolation, but even crummy health insurance plans have yearly limits where you'd "only" ever have to pay, like, twenty grand a year out of pocket on medical expenses. Significantly lower for better plans, of course. ... Assuming your plan is willing to cover the remaining expenses in the first place. (Yeah, it's not an irrational fear :P)
- vaidhy 3y ago
  I also just learnt that Medicaid can place a lien on your house in some cases. Maybe, the solution is to move out of US, but that is equally difficult with an Indian passport.
  - raincom 3y ago
    There are ways to protect your home from such liens. Enter medicaid asset protection trusts.
  - vuln 3y ago
    Florida has the Homestead act to prevent this.
    - mariojv 3y ago
      IANAL but Texas also has homestead laws that prevent creditors from seizing your primary residence: https://www.findlaw.com/state/texas-law/texas-homestead-law-overview.html#:~:text=State%20homestead%20protection%20laws%20help,pre%2Dexisting%20mortgage%20or%20lien https://www.findlaw.com/state/texas-law/texas-homestead-law-.... Not sure how that would apply with something like Medicaid
  - ridgeguy 3y ago
    In California, having your assets (home included) in a living trust shields those assets from Medicaid/Medical lookback forfeiture. [1] A living trust is a good idea for other reasons as well. [1] https://www.medicaidplanningassistance.org/asset-protection-trusts/ https://www.medicaidplanningassistance.org/asset-protection-...
nwiswell 3y ago
> I am only one serious illness away from bankruptcy and that is stressing me out Well, you're only one serious illness away from death. I'm not trying to be flippant here; there are more things that can properly kill you rather than just make you seriously ill and bankrupt you, provided your health insurance is decent. I do want to emphatically underscore that this isn't an endorsement of the system. It's just that if you're worried about almost dying and you're not worried about actually dying, you're probably miscalibrated. The best we can do is minimize the risk of Really Bad Outcomes. No one, no matter how rich, can avoid them altogether. All of us are gonna die.
- Retric 3y ago
  IMO, a great number of things are worse than death because dead me can’t suffer while live me can. Death isn’t unpleasant, it’s a bad outcome for me only in that it prevents the pleasure of living well. My death is a concern for those who care for or are dependent on me, but so is my incapacity and suffering.
  - nwiswell 3y ago
    "Bankruptcy is literally worse than death" is a new one for me, gotta be honest. If you really feel that way, there's always the emergency exit.
    - Arainach 3y ago
      In some important ways it absolutely can be, and the emergency exit doesn't help. If I die, life insurance pays out. If I commit suicide, it doesn't. If I die, there are some basic optional-but-socially-mandatory costs around disposal of the corpse and a memorial ceremony. Those are fixed and measured in thousands, not tens or hundreds of thousands. My property and assets pass to my heirs. They are grieving but financially secure. Prolonged illness can sap my reserves dry and drain me of wealth in a manner matched only by the retirement home industry. My family can watch me suffer and wilt away while watching their potential financial security drip through a hose into my veins.
IAmGraydon 3y ago
If you’re in the top 5% of wealth in the US, you already have over $1M net worth. How do you believe that a serious illness could wipe you out? Are you insured? Unless you’re pretty close to retirement already, turning your $1M into $2M is pretty easy in 10 years with smart investing and average returns. It becomes $3M in less than 15 years. You should be on autopilot to a multimillion retirement if you’re in the top 5%.
- vaidhy 3y ago
  I am close to 50.. My point is that I still have to survive and work for next 15 years and nowhere close to be doing things that I am passionate about (but not income earning) even though I am in the top 5%.
  - trallnag 3y ago
    You are doing something wrong. I'm close to 30 with a tenth of your wealth and a disability that is quite limiting to me, yet I never had the feeling that I'm living to just survive. Shouldn't you be in a position to make your work enjoyable?

by vaidhy 3y ago

asjfka 3y ago

TBH There is something indecent in being wealthier than 95% of population and still worrying about oneself. I think I'll puke.

zo1 3y ago
Having interacted with "poor" people recently way more than I have in the past. I realized that one very quickly adapts and forgets that life below a certain level of "income" is indeed possible. It's made me look at all the places in my life where all that "money" is being sucked away from me. Silly examples like that convenient 4$ Starbucks coffee on the way to work, or at the ground floor of your office building. It's easy, simple, delicious, and just a tap of a card to get. But poor people aren't able to do this, heck, they forego such things and simply drink water. Apply this kind of thing to a myriad of things that happen daily (and monthly as they come off your bank account).

JohnFen 3y ago

> I see no purpose in even aiming for a retirement in US. Welcome to the sad club. Retirement age is within sight for me and my friends, and most of my circle is not in a position to be able to retire.

acover 3y ago
What is retirement age to you? 65?
- nradov 3y ago
  Full US Social Security retirement age is 67. That might be raised again by the time that younger people become eligible.
  - vuln 3y ago
    Hell they tell me straight up I’ll only ever get a maximum of 80% of what I put in. I’m sure that percentage will be reduced in the next 40 years…
    - jxramos 3y ago
      there was a financial advisor at Apple who gave talks to employees and iirc they did mention that they used a rough percentage for advising clients with for what to expect from Social Security. It may have been 2/3 or 3/4 or 70%. I don't think it was as high as 80.
      - lotsofpulp 3y ago
        Social security benefits can be devalued in many ways. Expect future governments to: 1) increase retirement age 2) reduce purchasing power of money (print/issue/lend out excess money, resulting in inflation) 3) adjust “bend” points in SS benefit formula, making it more and more of a marginal income tax
  - Buttons840 3y ago
    Call me a pessimist, but I wouldn't be surprised if in the coming years Social Security age is increased while life expectancy declines.
    - Alupis 3y ago
      Only a fool would depend 100% on Social Security for retirement. Start early, and start young. Get a job that offers a retirement plan - even fast food chains do this now. Get the maximum match possible - it snowballs so much faster than people think. Don't count on the government to provide for you. That is a serious tactical error. Plan as-if Social Security will not be there. Then, if you get anything at all, it's just gravy.

spondylosaurus 3y ago

Maybe not much consolation, but even crummy health insurance plans have yearly limits where you'd "only" ever have to pay, like, twenty grand a year out of pocket on medical expenses. Significantly lower for better plans, of course. ... Assuming your plan is willing to cover the remaining expenses in the first place. (Yeah, it's not an irrational fear :P)

vaidhy 3y ago
I also just learnt that Medicaid can place a lien on your house in some cases. Maybe, the solution is to move out of US, but that is equally difficult with an Indian passport.
- raincom 3y ago
  There are ways to protect your home from such liens. Enter medicaid asset protection trusts.
- vuln 3y ago
  Florida has the Homestead act to prevent this.
  - mariojv 3y ago
    IANAL but Texas also has homestead laws that prevent creditors from seizing your primary residence: https://www.findlaw.com/state/texas-law/texas-homestead-law-overview.html#:~:text=State%20homestead%20protection%20laws%20help,pre%2Dexisting%20mortgage%20or%20lien https://www.findlaw.com/state/texas-law/texas-homestead-law-.... Not sure how that would apply with something like Medicaid
- ridgeguy 3y ago
  In California, having your assets (home included) in a living trust shields those assets from Medicaid/Medical lookback forfeiture. [1] A living trust is a good idea for other reasons as well. [1] https://www.medicaidplanningassistance.org/asset-protection-trusts/ https://www.medicaidplanningassistance.org/asset-protection-...

nwiswell 3y ago

> I am only one serious illness away from bankruptcy and that is stressing me out Well, you're only one serious illness away from death. I'm not trying to be flippant here; there are more things that can properly kill you rather than just make you seriously ill and bankrupt you, provided your health insurance is decent. I do want to emphatically underscore that this isn't an endorsement of the system. It's just that if you're worried about almost dying and you're not worried about actually dying, you're probably miscalibrated. The best we can do is minimize the risk of Really Bad Outcomes. No one, no matter how rich, can avoid them altogether. All of us are gonna die.

Retric 3y ago
IMO, a great number of things are worse than death because dead me can’t suffer while live me can. Death isn’t unpleasant, it’s a bad outcome for me only in that it prevents the pleasure of living well. My death is a concern for those who care for or are dependent on me, but so is my incapacity and suffering.
- nwiswell 3y ago
  "Bankruptcy is literally worse than death" is a new one for me, gotta be honest. If you really feel that way, there's always the emergency exit.
  - Arainach 3y ago
    In some important ways it absolutely can be, and the emergency exit doesn't help. If I die, life insurance pays out. If I commit suicide, it doesn't. If I die, there are some basic optional-but-socially-mandatory costs around disposal of the corpse and a memorial ceremony. Those are fixed and measured in thousands, not tens or hundreds of thousands. My property and assets pass to my heirs. They are grieving but financially secure. Prolonged illness can sap my reserves dry and drain me of wealth in a manner matched only by the retirement home industry. My family can watch me suffer and wilt away while watching their potential financial security drip through a hose into my veins.

IAmGraydon 3y ago

If you’re in the top 5% of wealth in the US, you already have over $1M net worth. How do you believe that a serious illness could wipe you out? Are you insured? Unless you’re pretty close to retirement already, turning your $1M into $2M is pretty easy in 10 years with smart investing and average returns. It becomes $3M in less than 15 years. You should be on autopilot to a multimillion retirement if you’re in the top 5%.

vaidhy 3y ago
I am close to 50.. My point is that I still have to survive and work for next 15 years and nowhere close to be doing things that I am passionate about (but not income earning) even though I am in the top 5%.
- trallnag 3y ago
  You are doing something wrong. I'm close to 30 with a tenth of your wealth and a disability that is quite limiting to me, yet I never had the feeling that I'm living to just survive. Shouldn't you be in a position to make your work enjoyable?