4 ms·

Still waiting for the other shoe to drop with a pricing announcement. I keep getting almost excited about the Framework 16", but then I'm remember it's probably

Still waiting for the other shoe to drop with a pricing announcement. I keep getting almost excited about the Framework 16", but then I'm remember it's probably going to be well over $2500USD for a decently specced model (without a GPU even) and my excitement quickly dissipates.

bboygravity 3y ago
What's the alternative high quality laptop in that price-range though? A Dell XPS that comes with a lose trackpad, massive coil whine, batteries that drain when plugged in and so on? Or an LG Gram Pro (more expensive than Framework) that isn't sold outside of the US and maybe some Asian countries where the only thing you can upgrade is the SSD? Or maybe some Apple laptop? I personally feel the price of a Framework is fair, even if it is 2500 USD (or more). Not necessarily because Framework is great (I would prefer 17"), but more because the alternatives are worse or don't exist.
- fragmede 3y ago
  A Thinkpad T16 is going to be under $1,600.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    From [0], the only model under $1600 is bizarrely discounted 45% from $2849, which I assume is a limited-time offer. The lowest-end model costs $1959, and is pretty meh: 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, crap 720p camera. The higest-end model is also strangely 45%-off discounted, but runs $3769 regular. If the Framework 16 ends up costing $2500 (or even $3000) for a reasonably-spec'd setup, I think that'd be pretty fair, especially given the configurability and upgradeability. If you don't value those things, then you probably shouldn't be considering Framework in the first place. [0] https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadt/thinkpad-t16-(16-inch-intel)/len101t0017 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadt/th...
    - xarope 3y ago
      FYI Never buy a thinkpad at list price. They are constantly discounted.
  - teki_one 3y ago
    Don't forget to check the screens on Lenovo laptops. Their prices, other specs and keyboards are usually good, but then the display is either low res or dim. The T16 comes with the following display in Australia: 16.0" WUXGA (1920 x 1200), IPS, Anti-Glare, Non-Touch, 45%NTSC, 300 nits, 60Hz
princevegeta89 3y ago
Is that really going to cost $2500 though? Sounds like a massive deal-breaker to me. Apple is giving me a Macbook Pro with solid hardware for an equivalent amount of money that I can always count on for everything I do, and still set it for ~40% of the value 5+ years later.
- CarVac 3y ago
  For this you don't need to sell it 5+ years down the road—you pop in a new mainboard with the latest processor, for much less than a new laptop would cost, and off you go.
  - Atreiden 3y ago
    And then you could sell or repurpose the old mainboard. There are 3D-printable enclosures that you could use to make it an HTPC. Really cool stuff
Prickle 3y ago
Sure, the initial upfront cost will be high. But I think that the trade off in the longer term will be worth it.
elxr 3y ago
[dead]
vorpalhex 3y ago
There's a cost to buying machines that are sustainable and use well paid workers, just like there's a cost to cage free eggs. I believe Foxconn, the main assembler for Apple, still sleeps 6 workers to an apartment.
- 908B64B197 3y ago
  > I believe Foxconn, the main assembler for Apple, still sleeps 6 workers to an apartment. The thing is, if Chinese labor becomes more expensive, these workers will get replaced either by an automated factory elsewhere (maybe in America!) and unemployment.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    Considering how we're talking about a manufacturer that famously installed anti-suicide nets for it's worker, maybe some time away from the factory would be a good thing?
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      They never had high suicide rates so no.
      - imp0cat 3y ago
        So, the nets work? ;)
      - smoldesu 3y ago
        In 2010, over 10 workers threw themselves from the building to their death. I guess that's not high enough for you?
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        That's not a useful rate until you factor in population. "High suicide rate" is a relative term, and does not describe foxconn. Specifically, the baseline China rate is either 100 or 220 per million per year depending on source. Foxconn had about 14 suicides that year out of about a million workers (or about half a million at the relevant factories? I'm not exactly sure.) That's an impressively low rate. And for reference the US rate is about 100-140 per million per year.

bboygravity 3y ago

What's the alternative high quality laptop in that price-range though? A Dell XPS that comes with a lose trackpad, massive coil whine, batteries that drain when plugged in and so on? Or an LG Gram Pro (more expensive than Framework) that isn't sold outside of the US and maybe some Asian countries where the only thing you can upgrade is the SSD? Or maybe some Apple laptop? I personally feel the price of a Framework is fair, even if it is 2500 USD (or more). Not necessarily because Framework is great (I would prefer 17"), but more because the alternatives are worse or don't exist.

fragmede 3y ago
A Thinkpad T16 is going to be under $1,600.
- kelnos 3y ago
  From [0], the only model under $1600 is bizarrely discounted 45% from $2849, which I assume is a limited-time offer. The lowest-end model costs $1959, and is pretty meh: 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, crap 720p camera. The higest-end model is also strangely 45%-off discounted, but runs $3769 regular. If the Framework 16 ends up costing $2500 (or even $3000) for a reasonably-spec'd setup, I think that'd be pretty fair, especially given the configurability and upgradeability. If you don't value those things, then you probably shouldn't be considering Framework in the first place. [0] https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadt/thinkpad-t16-(16-inch-intel)/len101t0017 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadt/th...
  - xarope 3y ago
    FYI Never buy a thinkpad at list price. They are constantly discounted.
- teki_one 3y ago
  Don't forget to check the screens on Lenovo laptops. Their prices, other specs and keyboards are usually good, but then the display is either low res or dim. The T16 comes with the following display in Australia: 16.0" WUXGA (1920 x 1200), IPS, Anti-Glare, Non-Touch, 45%NTSC, 300 nits, 60Hz

princevegeta89 3y ago

Is that really going to cost $2500 though? Sounds like a massive deal-breaker to me. Apple is giving me a Macbook Pro with solid hardware for an equivalent amount of money that I can always count on for everything I do, and still set it for ~40% of the value 5+ years later.

CarVac 3y ago
For this you don't need to sell it 5+ years down the road—you pop in a new mainboard with the latest processor, for much less than a new laptop would cost, and off you go.
- Atreiden 3y ago
  And then you could sell or repurpose the old mainboard. There are 3D-printable enclosures that you could use to make it an HTPC. Really cool stuff

Prickle 3y ago

Sure, the initial upfront cost will be high. But I think that the trade off in the longer term will be worth it.

elxr 3y ago

[dead]

vorpalhex 3y ago

There's a cost to buying machines that are sustainable and use well paid workers, just like there's a cost to cage free eggs. I believe Foxconn, the main assembler for Apple, still sleeps 6 workers to an apartment.

908B64B197 3y ago
> I believe Foxconn, the main assembler for Apple, still sleeps 6 workers to an apartment. The thing is, if Chinese labor becomes more expensive, these workers will get replaced either by an automated factory elsewhere (maybe in America!) and unemployment.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  Considering how we're talking about a manufacturer that famously installed anti-suicide nets for it's worker, maybe some time away from the factory would be a good thing?
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    They never had high suicide rates so no.
    - imp0cat 3y ago
      So, the nets work? ;)
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      In 2010, over 10 workers threw themselves from the building to their death. I guess that's not high enough for you?
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        That's not a useful rate until you factor in population. "High suicide rate" is a relative term, and does not describe foxconn. Specifically, the baseline China rate is either 100 or 220 per million per year depending on source. Foxconn had about 14 suicides that year out of about a million workers (or about half a million at the relevant factories? I'm not exactly sure.) That's an impressively low rate. And for reference the US rate is about 100-140 per million per year.