16 ms·

Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

307 points by crthpl 3y ago

stavros 3y ago
I really love my Framework. I love that I can hack it (I made a Yubikey adapter so I could always have it inserted: https://www.stavros.io/posts/making-a-security-key-for-the-framework-laptop/ https://www.stavros.io/posts/making-a-security-key-for-the-f...), I love that I can trivially repair any component that breaks, and it feels great as well, it's very light and solid. The only issues I have with it is battery life (though I have the battery set to charge to 70% max, which leaves a lot on the table), and the fact that Intel processors heat up very easily. I really hope Intel and AMD get their shit together and release a processor as efficient as Apple silicon, I don't want to end up using my MacBook more than my Framework.
kibwen 3y ago
Surprised to learn that magnesium is lighter than aluminum. Is it also more expensive? There must be some reason people still mostly use aluminum.
- larperdoodle 3y ago
  Quick search says its about $1 more per kilo
- nick0garvey 3y ago
  Aluminum alloys are also generally stronger than magnesium alloys.
- G3rn0ti 3y ago
  Magnesium is lighter than Aluminum because it is in the 2nd group of the periodic system to the left of Aluminum residing in the 3rd. The latter has got one additional proton and a couple of neutrons more.
  - artimaeis 3y ago
    There’s more to it than their atomic weights. Magnesium (24 amu) is ~66% the density of aluminum (27 amu). As I understand it, the crystalline structure of aluminum is more “tightly packed” than that of magnesium.
- coastermug 3y ago
  Magnesium is harder to machine. The chips produced can be highly flammable.
adad95 3y ago
they just need to make a touchscreen display to have me all in
- award_ 3y ago
  I went searching and was sad to find it'll ship without touch support. The display sure sounds great, but lacking touch is kind of a deal breaker for me.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- aitchnyu 3y ago
  Umm, what do you use touch for? I'm trying to avoid my touchpad as far as possible and scratch my head at those 3d-ing their hands.
Gordonjcp 3y ago
Is that really the best phrasing for the title, today? Like, particularly today?
- userbinator 3y ago
  I think it's deliberate.
  - kiwijamo 3y ago
    I'm not sure it is, it seems part of a series that started a while ago so very probably unrelated to the current events.
shinyogre 3y ago
Still no trackpoint.
yumraj 3y ago
Any ETA for 16” ?
PDTao5Q2TMaTp7U 3y ago
I like the self repair options, but the attachments are just dongles in another form factor
- rcoveson 3y ago
  Notable, a form factor that does not dangle. Are PCIe cards just dongles in another form factor? Is it a question of how much of the peripheral's surface area is visible from the outside? Or is it the difficulty of insertion/removal that separates expansion cards from dongles? For me it's the dangling that makes the dongle a dongle.
  - silon42 3y ago
    IMO it's a big mistake that the RJ45 adapter sticks out, because the laptop is not thick enough... There is no good reason for that.. also, I'd like batteries with cylindrical cells.
  - PDTao5Q2TMaTp7U 3y ago
    That's a disingenuous comparison. PCIe is not USB-C. You are comparing apples to oranges. The Framework laptop expansion cards are all USB-C dongles in a different form factor. It's purely an esthetic choice. You don't like the dangle. Thats a valid opinion. I have a USB-C hub that handles all the connections I need in a dongle-dangle. The only real objective benefit of it, IMO, (and this is HUGE) is the repairability. I am a huge fan of that, and hope that other makes would step up (or be forced to step up) and make the same kind of changes.
    - rcoveson 3y ago
      An expansion card that is flush with the rest of the laptop frame compared to a dongle that dangles from the side is absolutely not just an aesthetic difference. Expansion cards don't need to be disconnected and reconnected whenever you move the laptop. Dongles do. You can't put a laptop with four dongles hanging off of it into a bag. The distinction between USB-C and PCIe, on the other hand, is meaningless for most peripherals. An imaginary handheld AM radio is more similar to a handheld FM radio than the handheld FM radio is to a desktop FM radio, from the user's perspective. You could say that "comparing AM to FM is apples to oranges", but the user wouldn't care as much as they care about how they actually interact with the thing.
qingcharles 3y ago
Would there be any galvanic reaction having aluminium connected to magnesium?
- windowsrookie 3y ago
  Although I am not a scientist, it should be fine. In the automotive industry aluminum and magnesium have been used together for decades now.
- stevehawk 3y ago
  you'll also need moisture. so short of using it on a boat in the ocean 24/7 then you should be ok.
mouse_ 3y ago
Given the whole idea here is total user freedom for ports and I/O expandability, it bothers me that I cannot get this with an SD card slot, a feature that comes standard on newer macbook pros.
- kelnos 3y ago
  They do have microSD, at least[0]. I feel like full-size SD cards are a bit more niche than they used to be (mostly DSLRs?). But there's no stopping someone designing and manufacturing a full-size SD card reader if there's enough demand to warrant it. [0] https://frame.work/products/microsd-expansion-card https://frame.work/products/microsd-expansion-card
  - noisy_boy 3y ago
    They should have designed that module to be full size sdcard because the microsd to sdcard adapters are easily available everywhere (a lot of microsd cards actually have the adaptor included in the packaging).
d0100 3y ago
Is there any possibility of having another style of keyboard? I'm still looking for a notebook without a chicklet keyboard
- Modified3019 3y ago
  It would be a dream if there was a chassis surface plate and wiring bits for the framework that could allow for popping in a MP-08G33US-387C9-89US keyboard (see: https://laptopkey.com/lenovo-thinkpad-w520-laptop-keyboard-keys/ https://laptopkey.com/lenovo-thinkpad-w520-laptop-keyboard-k...)
m3kw9 3y ago
The picture at the end shows the laptops shadow on its left made it look like the laptop had a cheap shape. You can’t hVe sharp shadows like that on a photo
- oblio 3y ago
  What do you mean?
langsoul-com 3y ago
Seems cool, if it's as good as Dell xps 15 range with graphics card then I'll get one.
midoridensha 3y ago
What what's been going on the news the last few days, maybe the term "deep dive" isn't the best choice here.
acyou 3y ago
Me and many of my friends all have zombie Frankenstein desktops that perfectly illustrate why the Framework laptop both does and doesn't make sense. I can understand why people with money to burn might not understand the limitations of trying to make a modular architecture work over the long term. Back in the day, dropping in an SSD represented a massive, relatively inexpensive upgrade. But, a desktop has cross-compatibility and flexibility primarily afforded by its massive size and weight. I'm not convinced these sorts of cross compatible upgrades will continue to surface into the future. And especially not on a laptop/mobile form factor. Now, my desktop's IO ports are 2/3 fried. Its memory, motherboard, CPU, GPU, OS and hard drive are hopelessly outdated. It will never make sense to meaningfully upgrade it, upgrade would mean wholesale replacement of everything. I could keep the case and the CPU cooler, big whoop.
- bane 3y ago
  I remember the days of incremental PC upgrades being quite commonplace (the 286/386/486/Pentium era). It was sort of a golden time where a relatively poor kid (me) could save his pennies up to buy a small upgrade and keep a system going through various "Ship of Theseus" efforts. I think I managed such an upgrade cycle through 4 generations of CPU while keeping various peripherals in various states staggered across all of that. It also meant that if you had the right supplier you could cobble together barely working computers just able to boot the latest all floppy release of SUSE or something. Today it seems that a decent computer (~$1000k) will simply just run most things perfectly fine for around 5-7 years, after which all the main bus and peripheral tech will have moved on. It's easier to junk that system and buy another one almost from scratch. The main benefit I can think of for still buying your own parts and putting it together (or having somebody put it together) is price/performance /customizability still leads. I was able to retire (give to my wife) an 8 year old desktop which is still perfectly fine for her needs, and buy an all new system, but thread what I wanted through a budget by ultra-specifying specific parts. I couldn't find a pre-built that was close, even after I just paid Microcenter to put it all together for me. This also turned out to be a good idea as they were able to on-the-spot substitute a few pieces based on compatibility and inventory.
- eightysixfour 3y ago
  Counterpoint - socket AM4 motherboards had an extremely long, upgradable life. Mine has 5 years on it and the 5800x3d I recently swapped in is still one of the fastest gaming CPUs there is. From a gaming standpoint it can handle any top of the line GPU. And it is in a 7.5l SFF case.
iceporter 3y ago
is i7-1370p faster than m2 pro 10 cpu?
Paul_S 3y ago
No ARM option? Also, the battery compartment is tiny. Put the two together and I'm guessing this is not going to run for long. Love the idea though. If I ever buy a laptop again it will be one of those.
- danpalmer 3y ago
  I don't think the hardware or software are mainstream enough to make it work yet sadly. There are ARM CPUs available, but they are mostly for servers or very low end devices, there's not a lot in the pro laptop market, and even if a low-end server chip could be repurposed, I don't know if the brand recognition would work, customers know AMD and Intel and what they're getting in terms of performance at different specs. That all works differently with ARM. And then on the software side, Windows support seems... partial? Linux support is much better, but selling a laptop with only Linux as an option is a big step down in available market, and even Linux struggles with compatibility sometimes. Apple's ARM chips are the only mainstream laptop/desktop class chips, but that's a completely distinct software and hardware ecosystem that neither Framework nor anyone else have access to.
  - Paul_S 3y ago
    I didn't realise this was marketed to general public. Every distro and their dog supports arm. Anyway, I thought Windows runs on arm now? Although honestly, nowadays general public runs everything in a browser - why do they still need Windows?
    - danpalmer 3y ago
      This laptop is targeting the "pro-sumer" market. Framework aren't targeting the $500 price point, but they're definitely aiming to be mass market not require a computer science degree to use one. Distro support for ARM is good, but the state of packaging software on Linux isn't wonderful, it's certainly not something the average computer user could manage (hence why Linux for desktop/laptop use isn't popular outside of software engineering). ARM adds one more layer of complexity, and given that this is already difficult, that rules out more of the market. I gather Windows on ARM support is poor. The OS technically works, but a lot of software doesn't, and most software must run in emulation, which isn't great. MS announced more tooling for this at BUILD in March, but we're ~5 years in? and this is still going (macOS effectively fully transitioned in ~18 months). I think it's got a way to go before there aren't any obvious trade-offs for users. You're right most users probably don't need Windows, and something like a Chromebook would be more appropriate, and there are ARM Chromebooks. That's not the market for these laptops though, and the CPUs are much too low end for these machines.
lumb63 3y ago
I’m strongly considering buying a Framework 16 when they come out. But with all the hype they’re generating, I feel certain that I and many others have to be disappointed. It can’t live up to it.
_nalply 3y ago
Magnesium is flammable. Does anyone know if a lithium battery fire could light up the enclosure?
moondev 3y ago
You are really doing a good job convincing me I need a third framework
buildbot 3y ago
Good detail hear about the process if making the case - really interesting to read. Injection molding semi-liquid magnesium seems…quite difficult to say the least! Tangentially, I wish there was some online resources for learning how best design for manufacture for things like laptops and cases. Contract CNC fabrication is really inexpensive these days until you need 10 iterations to fix your dumb mistakes.
- zonkerdonker 3y ago
  Thixomolding is an incredible process, I'm glad it's becoming more utilized. It really is the best for lightweight, strong, and super thin parts like laptop chassis. About 10 years ago I worked for a medical device company and we used thixo parts for a portable ultrasound system (think chunky laptop form factor). In my first few weeks, I had a proto part that needed a rework, so I chucked the thixomolded part into the bandsaw to chop it up, before the shop manager chewed me out for almost setting the shop on fire (who let this clueless engineer into my shop...etc etc). Magnesium dust is stupid flammable and burns incredibly fast and hot. There were only a handful of vendors in the world at that time that had the capability to mold the size of parts we needed, it's a vastly different process to casting other metals, in part due to the hazards of the material itself. Warning to all overly ambitious framework owners: careful if you decide to chop or drill into that case!
  - liminalsunset 3y ago
    I'm wondering what the properties of thixomolding parts are like compared to casting compared to having the part machined out of a solid piece. One thing I personally noticed with these types of "cast-looking" parts is that they tend to fail in a brittle way and there's really not much ductility. I've seen many notebooks with Mg alloy casings that shatter when dropped, and I've always preferred the Apple unibody machined aluminum for this reason - if it's bent or drops, it tends to retain its integrity much better. Granted, aluminum doesn't tend to have all that much ductility before it too, breaks, but I've found it more robust.
    - zonkerdonker 3y ago
cowpig 3y ago
I find the battery life on my framework 13 really bad (ubuntu installed). There's some issue where the battery drains fairly quickly in suspend which requires enabling "deep sleep" mode, but it still drains a lot faster than other laptops I've had. And then the battery life in general isn't very good; I'd say ~2 hours at full brightness with some video streaming mixed in with normal browsing. I wonder if that's the same experience other people have? And whether the 16 will have better battery life?
- hellcow 3y ago
  The 13th gen apparently has dramatically better battery life, which is great since the battery life otherwise prevented me from buying one. They spent a lot of time optimizing it both in hardware and software.
  - Rebelgecko 3y ago
    Meanwhile the firmware update to improve battery life on the 12th gen has been in beta since last year :( I've held off on installing it since some of the bugs sound scary (breaking USB ports)
- strangescript 3y ago
  I find battery life with linux in general pretty poor. It also struggles achieve any kind of reasonable hibernate/suspend. I can throw my macbook into a bag and pull out a week later with just a small battery draw down. I have never had a linux laptop that would not be completely dead in that scenario.
  - bodge5000 3y ago
    I find my macbook (M1, Air) achieves really good battery life when I'm actively using it as my main computer (so including sleep/hibernate) but extremely poor when I'm not. For example if I turn my Macbook completely off and leave it for a month, the batteries drained completely.
    - 3y ago
wpwpwpw 3y ago
Great that in some months there will be a high-end laptop that you don't have to throw in the garbage bin once a ram chip fries. High expectations.
- CarVac 3y ago
  My girlfriend has had a $3000 gaming laptop die twice. Feels really bad to own e-waste.
  - verall 3y ago
    I have seen this happen to many friends, older gaming laptops either dying or running much slower than expected while my desktop just chugs along.
    - _2z1p 3y ago
      Gaming laptops are particularly prone to this because of all the heat they generate. Desktops have much better mechanisms for dealing with heat.
      - Hextinium 3y ago
        This is where buying "professional grade" does often save you. I have seen tons of Dell Latitudes and Lenovo Thinkpads that look like a black brick but are still going 5+ years later. They actually invested in thermals and it shows. (Written on a 7 year old Thinkpad).
        nerdponx 3y ago
        I had to repaste the CPU in my old Thinkpad after a couple of years, but overall I got several years of hard use out of it (including playing games on it in hot apartments) before I destroyed it with an unplanned rapid deceleration.
        ItsBob 3y ago
        It's funny you should say that... I just bought a 6? year old Latitude E7470 for £189 last week. I had one years ago and it was built like a tank. Also, the screen (2560x1440) is possibly the best I've had on a laptop and the keyboard has particularly deep and solid travel making it the best typing experience I've had on a laptop too. So, best laptop I've had tbh. It's only an i7 6600U so not mega powerful but I don't write 2M LOC apps anyway so it's fine. Just waiting on 32GB RAM arriving (official support is 16GB but the chipset supports 32). I agree 100%... business-class laptops (and printers for that matter) all the way.
hellcow 3y ago
This case looks great. Love that we have replaceable graphics on this one. I’m most excited for the ortholinear keyboard attachment. That makes it a must-buy for me, since after switching to a Kinesis Advantage I just can’t type on a staggered layout anymore.
- 111111IIIIIII 3y ago
  Is this real? I've gone without a laptop for 6 months now due to RSI. If this is real, I might actually cry.
  - sphars 3y ago
    Closest I've been able to find is this note from the founder: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35280168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35280168 See parent for context
  - hellcow 3y ago
    Yup! Here's an image of it: https://twitter.com/FrameworkPuter/status/1648371892062130176 https://twitter.com/FrameworkPuter/status/164837189206213017... A split and thumb clusters would make it perfect, but I'll take what I can get.
    - 111111IIIIIII 3y ago
      Oof, yeah hopefully they realize that and redesign it as 2 halves.
    - yepguy 3y ago
      A split and/or tilt is mandatory IMO. Without it, ortholinear keyboards are even less ergonomic than a regular staggered keyboard.
      - seanhunter 3y ago
        They’re just keys - you can remap the middle ones to be your enter, tab, backspace and escape. That’s basically what I do with my Planck layout. https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/tree/master/keyboards/planck/keymaps/sean https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/tree/master/keyboards/pl...
butz 3y ago
Are we at the point where buying and assembling a laptop, like building a desktop PC, can be done by any enthusiast?
- princevegeta89 3y ago
  If anything I would suspect if it's anywhere near the complexity of assembling a PC. This laptop is designed to be no-more than a real-world drag and drop machine
- dheera 3y ago
  If you buy all components from Frame.work, yes. Nobody else to my knowledge is making compatible components for their laptops though, so we're still a ways away from having an ecosystem of options like desktop PCs have. If you're not an EE, the only things you can buy 3rd party are RAM, SSD, and Wi-Fi modules. Which you can do the same for Thinkpads. That said -- I do appreciate that partial upgrades are possible with Frame.work. I own one and when I upgrade the motherboard, even though I can only buy a motherboard upgrade from them, I won't be upgrading the case, display, and other things that don't need upgrades.
  - WWLink 3y ago
    To date, framework's laptops are the only ones I've ever seen that were designed with replacing the motherboard as a possible upgrade path. There are a few Thinkpad series out there that by happy coincidence, you can swap parts and upgrade screens or maybe change to a newer generation's motherboard.. but generally that's more of a coincidence and not an intent. I'm glad framework is trying this out. I'm not surprised about the battery life, but pretty much anything not made by Apple will have that issue lol.
    - Rediscover 3y ago
      https://mntre.com/ https://mntre.com/ MNT Reform. Replaceable CPUs...
mrtranscendence 3y ago
Apropos of nothing, I learned (thanks to a recent Linus Tech Tips video) that Framework's DIY Edition laptops are preassembled for QA and then disassembled prior to shipping. I found that amusing. Not sure I could buy a DIY model knowing that.
- nerdponx 3y ago
  Would you rather them not do QA?
- mynameisvlad 3y ago
  Why does that matter? Most people buying them will likely use their own RAM, storage and OS anyway. And either way, you'd ostensibly want to make sure your computer is supposed to work once you assemble it yourself.
  - mrtranscendence 3y ago
    I'm not sure I follow you here. I'm not saying that it should necessarily come with RAM, storage, and OS, which can be removed without disassembling the entire laptop. And I'm not making a statement one way or the other on whether you'll have to ensure your computer works. I'm only saying that it's funny to learn that Framework undergoes some effort to assemble and test the laptop only to undo that work so the buyer can assemble the entire thing. It might be for entirely good reasons, but that doesn't make it a bit funny prima facie.
    - mynameisvlad 3y ago
      > It might be for entirely good reasons, but that doesn't make it a bit funny prima facie. It might be funny, but your argument wasn't just that, it was that you wouldn't buy it because of this fact, which seems absurd. They're using known good hardware to make sure the parts they do send you will work. The hardware they're putting in and taking out prior to shipping will likely not even remotely be the parts you actually use since it's BYO. They're just there to make sure that what they do ship will work once assembled. As another commenter said, would you rather they didn't perform QA and just let the customer figure out that their mainboard is actually busted after spending time assembling it? That would be an exceptionally bad user experience.
kccqzy 3y ago
I don't know if magnesium is a common choice for computer enclosures, but one of the few examples of magnesium that I immediately recall (besides Surface) is a NeXT computer that went up in flames: https://simson.net/ref/1993/cubefire.html https://simson.net/ref/1993/cubefire.html
- buildbot 3y ago
  Pretty common! Many cameras use a cast magnesium frame too. It’s surprisingly hard to ignite! As your link explains it took them a bit haha.
- loughnane 3y ago
  The ms surface books were magnesium I think.
- SeanLuke 3y ago
  It's important to note that Simson Garfinkel had to go through extraordinary measures to get the NeXT cube to catch fire. Magnesium is pretty safe.
- kcb 3y ago
  Magnesium is pretty common in higher end Windows laptops.
- lhl 3y ago
  One additional note is that it's possible to make Magnesium alloys much more resistant to burning (adding Calcium and Yttrium for example): https://www.ait.ac.at/en/research-topics/casting-technologies/projects/flame-resistant-magnesium-alloys https://www.ait.ac.at/en/research-topics/casting-technologie... Related: * Testing of WE43/Elektron 21 vs AZ91, ZE41: https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/2010Conference/files/Magnesium_Use_In_Aircraft/LyonMagnesium/LyonWhymagnesiumalloysburnPres.pdf https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/2010Conference/files/Magnesium_U... * Final FAA evaluation of flammability of various magnesium alloys (for aircraft use): https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/ar11-13.pdf https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/ar11-13.pdf * The Wikipedia is a pretty good overview of a bunch of the material properties: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_alloy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_alloy For context btw, ignition temp (in furnace) for magnesium alloys is around 600C, which a house fire can reach: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010938X11004811 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00109...
rfwhyte 3y ago
Still waiting for the other shoe to drop with a pricing announcement. I keep getting almost excited about the Framework 16", but then I'm remember it's probably going to be well over $2500USD for a decently specced model (without a GPU even) and my excitement quickly dissipates.
- bboygravity 3y ago
  What's the alternative high quality laptop in that price-range though? A Dell XPS that comes with a lose trackpad, massive coil whine, batteries that drain when plugged in and so on? Or an LG Gram Pro (more expensive than Framework) that isn't sold outside of the US and maybe some Asian countries where the only thing you can upgrade is the SSD? Or maybe some Apple laptop? I personally feel the price of a Framework is fair, even if it is 2500 USD (or more). Not necessarily because Framework is great (I would prefer 17"), but more because the alternatives are worse or don't exist.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    A Thinkpad T16 is going to be under $1,600.
    - kelnos 3y ago
      From [0], the only model under $1600 is bizarrely discounted 45% from $2849, which I assume is a limited-time offer. The lowest-end model costs $1959, and is pretty meh: 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, crap 720p camera. The higest-end model is also strangely 45%-off discounted, but runs $3769 regular. If the Framework 16 ends up costing $2500 (or even $3000) for a reasonably-spec'd setup, I think that'd be pretty fair, especially given the configurability and upgradeability. If you don't value those things, then you probably shouldn't be considering Framework in the first place. [0] https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadt/thinkpad-t16-(16-inch-intel)/len101t0017 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadt/th...
      - xarope 3y ago
RGamma 3y ago
Give it a trackpoint and it's mine!
- Humbly8967 3y ago
  System76 might be willing to collaborate on this. They are designing a trackpoint into their upcoming in-house laptop, and they make open hardware.
  - geoka9 3y ago
    That's good to hear! Maybe they'll take cue from TEX[0] and source their TP modules from Lenovo, so that they feel the same. [0]https://tex.com.tw https://tex.com.tw
- geoka9 3y ago
  Or at least make the screen hinges 360 degrees so that it can be easily used with an external keyboard.
KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
See also https://starlabs.systems/pages/starfighter https://starlabs.systems/pages/starfighter
- rowanG077 3y ago
  I don't get it. What does this has to do with the article?
  - cultofmetatron 3y ago
    its am alternative linux laptop. probably brought up because this crowd mostly looks at framework to put linux on.
  - DiabloD3 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - bodge5000 3y ago
      What other companies are selling anything like the Starfighter?
    - KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
      You stop shilling for System76, no matter how good their QA is, the actual product is trash. Their screens and casing are on the level of bargain store acer machines, not premium quality laptops. I want my Linux hardware to be on the level of Macs, "privacy" and "coreboot" are no excuse for lack of product vision and poor mechanical engineering.
      - DiabloD3 3y ago
        Who said I'm shilling for System76? If I'm buying a new laptop today, its gonna be a Framework. If I need to recommend something more inexpensive and casual, System76 exists, but I'd only recommend that to people have yet to fix their flawed thinking and think they don't want a Framework.
accrual 3y ago
I thought this line was interesting: > with no externally visible fasteners I wonder if it was easier or thinner to do that way, or if it was a deliberate design choice for a more minimal appearance. Personally I don't mind seeing fasteners. After swapping LCDs on my old Thinkpads a couple times, I stopped replacing the screw covers and embraced one fewer step for future maintenance.
- marssaxman 3y ago
  Visible fasteners are actually a plus for me - they are a signal that the device has a sane, maintainable design!
  - bronson 3y ago
    My Macbook has visible fasteners and it doesn’t have a sane, maintainable design.
- nrp 3y ago
  Amazingly enough, we didn't go in with this as a design goal from the start. The Framework Laptop 13 has exposed fasteners on the Bottom Cover, and we went in assuming we'd go the same direction. As we designed the Input Module system, it became clear that the best way to design it was installing everything directly down into the Bottom Cover, meaning you don't need to flip the system over to unscrew anything. The result is a Bottom Cover that is super clean.
  - Triangle9349 3y ago
    Sorry for the stupid question, what is the advantage of your new connection for gpu? why not oculink or pcie riser or thunderbolt?
    - nrp 3y ago
      PCIe is too physically large, Oculink is too thick and doesn't have enough pins for power, and Thunderbolt has protocol overhead and throughput limitations.
hypeatei 3y ago
"Deep dive" too soon...

307 points by crthpl 3y ago

I really love my Framework. I love that I can hack it (I made a Yubikey adapter so I could always have it inserted: https://www.stavros.io/posts/making-a-security-key-for-the-framework-laptop/ https://www.stavros.io/posts/making-a-security-key-for-the-f...), I love that I can trivially repair any component that breaks, and it feels great as well, it's very light and solid. The only issues I have with it is battery life (though I have the battery set to charge to 70% max, which leaves a lot on the table), and the fact that Intel processors heat up very easily. I really hope Intel and AMD get their shit together and release a processor as efficient as Apple silicon, I don't want to end up using my MacBook more than my Framework.

kibwen 3y ago

Surprised to learn that magnesium is lighter than aluminum. Is it also more expensive? There must be some reason people still mostly use aluminum.

larperdoodle 3y ago
Quick search says its about $1 more per kilo
nick0garvey 3y ago
Aluminum alloys are also generally stronger than magnesium alloys.
G3rn0ti 3y ago
Magnesium is lighter than Aluminum because it is in the 2nd group of the periodic system to the left of Aluminum residing in the 3rd. The latter has got one additional proton and a couple of neutrons more.
- artimaeis 3y ago
  There’s more to it than their atomic weights. Magnesium (24 amu) is ~66% the density of aluminum (27 amu). As I understand it, the crystalline structure of aluminum is more “tightly packed” than that of magnesium.
coastermug 3y ago
Magnesium is harder to machine. The chips produced can be highly flammable.

adad95 3y ago

they just need to make a touchscreen display to have me all in

award_ 3y ago
I went searching and was sad to find it'll ship without touch support. The display sure sounds great, but lacking touch is kind of a deal breaker for me.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
aitchnyu 3y ago
Umm, what do you use touch for? I'm trying to avoid my touchpad as far as possible and scratch my head at those 3d-ing their hands.

Gordonjcp 3y ago

Is that really the best phrasing for the title, today? Like, particularly today?

userbinator 3y ago
I think it's deliberate.
- kiwijamo 3y ago
  I'm not sure it is, it seems part of a series that started a while ago so very probably unrelated to the current events.

shinyogre 3y ago

Still no trackpoint.

yumraj 3y ago

Any ETA for 16” ?

PDTao5Q2TMaTp7U 3y ago

I like the self repair options, but the attachments are just dongles in another form factor

rcoveson 3y ago
Notable, a form factor that does not dangle. Are PCIe cards just dongles in another form factor? Is it a question of how much of the peripheral's surface area is visible from the outside? Or is it the difficulty of insertion/removal that separates expansion cards from dongles? For me it's the dangling that makes the dongle a dongle.
- silon42 3y ago
  IMO it's a big mistake that the RJ45 adapter sticks out, because the laptop is not thick enough... There is no good reason for that.. also, I'd like batteries with cylindrical cells.
- PDTao5Q2TMaTp7U 3y ago
  That's a disingenuous comparison. PCIe is not USB-C. You are comparing apples to oranges. The Framework laptop expansion cards are all USB-C dongles in a different form factor. It's purely an esthetic choice. You don't like the dangle. Thats a valid opinion. I have a USB-C hub that handles all the connections I need in a dongle-dangle. The only real objective benefit of it, IMO, (and this is HUGE) is the repairability. I am a huge fan of that, and hope that other makes would step up (or be forced to step up) and make the same kind of changes.
  - rcoveson 3y ago
    An expansion card that is flush with the rest of the laptop frame compared to a dongle that dangles from the side is absolutely not just an aesthetic difference. Expansion cards don't need to be disconnected and reconnected whenever you move the laptop. Dongles do. You can't put a laptop with four dongles hanging off of it into a bag. The distinction between USB-C and PCIe, on the other hand, is meaningless for most peripherals. An imaginary handheld AM radio is more similar to a handheld FM radio than the handheld FM radio is to a desktop FM radio, from the user's perspective. You could say that "comparing AM to FM is apples to oranges", but the user wouldn't care as much as they care about how they actually interact with the thing.

qingcharles 3y ago

Would there be any galvanic reaction having aluminium connected to magnesium?

windowsrookie 3y ago
Although I am not a scientist, it should be fine. In the automotive industry aluminum and magnesium have been used together for decades now.
stevehawk 3y ago
you'll also need moisture. so short of using it on a boat in the ocean 24/7 then you should be ok.

mouse_ 3y ago

Given the whole idea here is total user freedom for ports and I/O expandability, it bothers me that I cannot get this with an SD card slot, a feature that comes standard on newer macbook pros.

kelnos 3y ago
They do have microSD, at least[0]. I feel like full-size SD cards are a bit more niche than they used to be (mostly DSLRs?). But there's no stopping someone designing and manufacturing a full-size SD card reader if there's enough demand to warrant it. [0] https://frame.work/products/microsd-expansion-card https://frame.work/products/microsd-expansion-card
- noisy_boy 3y ago
  They should have designed that module to be full size sdcard because the microsd to sdcard adapters are easily available everywhere (a lot of microsd cards actually have the adaptor included in the packaging).

d0100 3y ago

Is there any possibility of having another style of keyboard? I'm still looking for a notebook without a chicklet keyboard

Modified3019 3y ago
It would be a dream if there was a chassis surface plate and wiring bits for the framework that could allow for popping in a MP-08G33US-387C9-89US keyboard (see: https://laptopkey.com/lenovo-thinkpad-w520-laptop-keyboard-keys/ https://laptopkey.com/lenovo-thinkpad-w520-laptop-keyboard-k...)

m3kw9 3y ago

The picture at the end shows the laptops shadow on its left made it look like the laptop had a cheap shape. You can’t hVe sharp shadows like that on a photo

oblio 3y ago
What do you mean?

langsoul-com 3y ago

Seems cool, if it's as good as Dell xps 15 range with graphics card then I'll get one.

midoridensha 3y ago

What what's been going on the news the last few days, maybe the term "deep dive" isn't the best choice here.

acyou 3y ago

Me and many of my friends all have zombie Frankenstein desktops that perfectly illustrate why the Framework laptop both does and doesn't make sense. I can understand why people with money to burn might not understand the limitations of trying to make a modular architecture work over the long term. Back in the day, dropping in an SSD represented a massive, relatively inexpensive upgrade. But, a desktop has cross-compatibility and flexibility primarily afforded by its massive size and weight. I'm not convinced these sorts of cross compatible upgrades will continue to surface into the future. And especially not on a laptop/mobile form factor. Now, my desktop's IO ports are 2/3 fried. Its memory, motherboard, CPU, GPU, OS and hard drive are hopelessly outdated. It will never make sense to meaningfully upgrade it, upgrade would mean wholesale replacement of everything. I could keep the case and the CPU cooler, big whoop.

bane 3y ago
I remember the days of incremental PC upgrades being quite commonplace (the 286/386/486/Pentium era). It was sort of a golden time where a relatively poor kid (me) could save his pennies up to buy a small upgrade and keep a system going through various "Ship of Theseus" efforts. I think I managed such an upgrade cycle through 4 generations of CPU while keeping various peripherals in various states staggered across all of that. It also meant that if you had the right supplier you could cobble together barely working computers just able to boot the latest all floppy release of SUSE or something. Today it seems that a decent computer (~$1000k) will simply just run most things perfectly fine for around 5-7 years, after which all the main bus and peripheral tech will have moved on. It's easier to junk that system and buy another one almost from scratch. The main benefit I can think of for still buying your own parts and putting it together (or having somebody put it together) is price/performance /customizability still leads. I was able to retire (give to my wife) an 8 year old desktop which is still perfectly fine for her needs, and buy an all new system, but thread what I wanted through a budget by ultra-specifying specific parts. I couldn't find a pre-built that was close, even after I just paid Microcenter to put it all together for me. This also turned out to be a good idea as they were able to on-the-spot substitute a few pieces based on compatibility and inventory.
eightysixfour 3y ago
Counterpoint - socket AM4 motherboards had an extremely long, upgradable life. Mine has 5 years on it and the 5800x3d I recently swapped in is still one of the fastest gaming CPUs there is. From a gaming standpoint it can handle any top of the line GPU. And it is in a 7.5l SFF case.

iceporter 3y ago

is i7-1370p faster than m2 pro 10 cpu?

Paul_S 3y ago

No ARM option? Also, the battery compartment is tiny. Put the two together and I'm guessing this is not going to run for long. Love the idea though. If I ever buy a laptop again it will be one of those.

danpalmer 3y ago
I don't think the hardware or software are mainstream enough to make it work yet sadly. There are ARM CPUs available, but they are mostly for servers or very low end devices, there's not a lot in the pro laptop market, and even if a low-end server chip could be repurposed, I don't know if the brand recognition would work, customers know AMD and Intel and what they're getting in terms of performance at different specs. That all works differently with ARM. And then on the software side, Windows support seems... partial? Linux support is much better, but selling a laptop with only Linux as an option is a big step down in available market, and even Linux struggles with compatibility sometimes. Apple's ARM chips are the only mainstream laptop/desktop class chips, but that's a completely distinct software and hardware ecosystem that neither Framework nor anyone else have access to.
- Paul_S 3y ago
  I didn't realise this was marketed to general public. Every distro and their dog supports arm. Anyway, I thought Windows runs on arm now? Although honestly, nowadays general public runs everything in a browser - why do they still need Windows?
  - danpalmer 3y ago
    This laptop is targeting the "pro-sumer" market. Framework aren't targeting the $500 price point, but they're definitely aiming to be mass market not require a computer science degree to use one. Distro support for ARM is good, but the state of packaging software on Linux isn't wonderful, it's certainly not something the average computer user could manage (hence why Linux for desktop/laptop use isn't popular outside of software engineering). ARM adds one more layer of complexity, and given that this is already difficult, that rules out more of the market. I gather Windows on ARM support is poor. The OS technically works, but a lot of software doesn't, and most software must run in emulation, which isn't great. MS announced more tooling for this at BUILD in March, but we're ~5 years in? and this is still going (macOS effectively fully transitioned in ~18 months). I think it's got a way to go before there aren't any obvious trade-offs for users. You're right most users probably don't need Windows, and something like a Chromebook would be more appropriate, and there are ARM Chromebooks. That's not the market for these laptops though, and the CPUs are much too low end for these machines.

lumb63 3y ago

I’m strongly considering buying a Framework 16 when they come out. But with all the hype they’re generating, I feel certain that I and many others have to be disappointed. It can’t live up to it.

_nalply 3y ago

Magnesium is flammable. Does anyone know if a lithium battery fire could light up the enclosure?

moondev 3y ago

You are really doing a good job convincing me I need a third framework

buildbot 3y ago

Good detail hear about the process if making the case - really interesting to read. Injection molding semi-liquid magnesium seems…quite difficult to say the least! Tangentially, I wish there was some online resources for learning how best design for manufacture for things like laptops and cases. Contract CNC fabrication is really inexpensive these days until you need 10 iterations to fix your dumb mistakes.

zonkerdonker 3y ago
Thixomolding is an incredible process, I'm glad it's becoming more utilized. It really is the best for lightweight, strong, and super thin parts like laptop chassis. About 10 years ago I worked for a medical device company and we used thixo parts for a portable ultrasound system (think chunky laptop form factor). In my first few weeks, I had a proto part that needed a rework, so I chucked the thixomolded part into the bandsaw to chop it up, before the shop manager chewed me out for almost setting the shop on fire (who let this clueless engineer into my shop...etc etc). Magnesium dust is stupid flammable and burns incredibly fast and hot. There were only a handful of vendors in the world at that time that had the capability to mold the size of parts we needed, it's a vastly different process to casting other metals, in part due to the hazards of the material itself. Warning to all overly ambitious framework owners: careful if you decide to chop or drill into that case!
- liminalsunset 3y ago
  I'm wondering what the properties of thixomolding parts are like compared to casting compared to having the part machined out of a solid piece. One thing I personally noticed with these types of "cast-looking" parts is that they tend to fail in a brittle way and there's really not much ductility. I've seen many notebooks with Mg alloy casings that shatter when dropped, and I've always preferred the Apple unibody machined aluminum for this reason - if it's bent or drops, it tends to retain its integrity much better. Granted, aluminum doesn't tend to have all that much ductility before it too, breaks, but I've found it more robust.
  - zonkerdonker 3y ago

cowpig 3y ago

I find the battery life on my framework 13 really bad (ubuntu installed). There's some issue where the battery drains fairly quickly in suspend which requires enabling "deep sleep" mode, but it still drains a lot faster than other laptops I've had. And then the battery life in general isn't very good; I'd say ~2 hours at full brightness with some video streaming mixed in with normal browsing. I wonder if that's the same experience other people have? And whether the 16 will have better battery life?

hellcow 3y ago
The 13th gen apparently has dramatically better battery life, which is great since the battery life otherwise prevented me from buying one. They spent a lot of time optimizing it both in hardware and software.
- Rebelgecko 3y ago
  Meanwhile the firmware update to improve battery life on the 12th gen has been in beta since last year :( I've held off on installing it since some of the bugs sound scary (breaking USB ports)
strangescript 3y ago
I find battery life with linux in general pretty poor. It also struggles achieve any kind of reasonable hibernate/suspend. I can throw my macbook into a bag and pull out a week later with just a small battery draw down. I have never had a linux laptop that would not be completely dead in that scenario.
- bodge5000 3y ago
  I find my macbook (M1, Air) achieves really good battery life when I'm actively using it as my main computer (so including sleep/hibernate) but extremely poor when I'm not. For example if I turn my Macbook completely off and leave it for a month, the batteries drained completely.
  - 3y ago

wpwpwpw 3y ago

Great that in some months there will be a high-end laptop that you don't have to throw in the garbage bin once a ram chip fries. High expectations.

CarVac 3y ago
My girlfriend has had a $3000 gaming laptop die twice. Feels really bad to own e-waste.
- verall 3y ago
  I have seen this happen to many friends, older gaming laptops either dying or running much slower than expected while my desktop just chugs along.
  - _2z1p 3y ago
    Gaming laptops are particularly prone to this because of all the heat they generate. Desktops have much better mechanisms for dealing with heat.
    - Hextinium 3y ago
      This is where buying "professional grade" does often save you. I have seen tons of Dell Latitudes and Lenovo Thinkpads that look like a black brick but are still going 5+ years later. They actually invested in thermals and it shows. (Written on a 7 year old Thinkpad).
      - nerdponx 3y ago
        I had to repaste the CPU in my old Thinkpad after a couple of years, but overall I got several years of hard use out of it (including playing games on it in hot apartments) before I destroyed it with an unplanned rapid deceleration.
      - ItsBob 3y ago
        It's funny you should say that... I just bought a 6? year old Latitude E7470 for £189 last week. I had one years ago and it was built like a tank. Also, the screen (2560x1440) is possibly the best I've had on a laptop and the keyboard has particularly deep and solid travel making it the best typing experience I've had on a laptop too. So, best laptop I've had tbh. It's only an i7 6600U so not mega powerful but I don't write 2M LOC apps anyway so it's fine. Just waiting on 32GB RAM arriving (official support is 16GB but the chipset supports 32). I agree 100%... business-class laptops (and printers for that matter) all the way.

hellcow 3y ago

This case looks great. Love that we have replaceable graphics on this one. I’m most excited for the ortholinear keyboard attachment. That makes it a must-buy for me, since after switching to a Kinesis Advantage I just can’t type on a staggered layout anymore.

111111IIIIIII 3y ago
Is this real? I've gone without a laptop for 6 months now due to RSI. If this is real, I might actually cry.
- sphars 3y ago
  Closest I've been able to find is this note from the founder: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35280168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35280168 See parent for context
- hellcow 3y ago
  Yup! Here's an image of it: https://twitter.com/FrameworkPuter/status/1648371892062130176 https://twitter.com/FrameworkPuter/status/164837189206213017... A split and thumb clusters would make it perfect, but I'll take what I can get.
  - 111111IIIIIII 3y ago
    Oof, yeah hopefully they realize that and redesign it as 2 halves.
  - yepguy 3y ago
    A split and/or tilt is mandatory IMO. Without it, ortholinear keyboards are even less ergonomic than a regular staggered keyboard.
    - seanhunter 3y ago
      They’re just keys - you can remap the middle ones to be your enter, tab, backspace and escape. That’s basically what I do with my Planck layout. https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/tree/master/keyboards/planck/keymaps/sean https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/tree/master/keyboards/pl...

butz 3y ago

Are we at the point where buying and assembling a laptop, like building a desktop PC, can be done by any enthusiast?

princevegeta89 3y ago
If anything I would suspect if it's anywhere near the complexity of assembling a PC. This laptop is designed to be no-more than a real-world drag and drop machine
dheera 3y ago
If you buy all components from Frame.work, yes. Nobody else to my knowledge is making compatible components for their laptops though, so we're still a ways away from having an ecosystem of options like desktop PCs have. If you're not an EE, the only things you can buy 3rd party are RAM, SSD, and Wi-Fi modules. Which you can do the same for Thinkpads. That said -- I do appreciate that partial upgrades are possible with Frame.work. I own one and when I upgrade the motherboard, even though I can only buy a motherboard upgrade from them, I won't be upgrading the case, display, and other things that don't need upgrades.
- WWLink 3y ago
  To date, framework's laptops are the only ones I've ever seen that were designed with replacing the motherboard as a possible upgrade path. There are a few Thinkpad series out there that by happy coincidence, you can swap parts and upgrade screens or maybe change to a newer generation's motherboard.. but generally that's more of a coincidence and not an intent. I'm glad framework is trying this out. I'm not surprised about the battery life, but pretty much anything not made by Apple will have that issue lol.
  - Rediscover 3y ago
    https://mntre.com/ https://mntre.com/ MNT Reform. Replaceable CPUs...

mrtranscendence 3y ago

Apropos of nothing, I learned (thanks to a recent Linus Tech Tips video) that Framework's DIY Edition laptops are preassembled for QA and then disassembled prior to shipping. I found that amusing. Not sure I could buy a DIY model knowing that.

nerdponx 3y ago
Would you rather them not do QA?
mynameisvlad 3y ago
Why does that matter? Most people buying them will likely use their own RAM, storage and OS anyway. And either way, you'd ostensibly want to make sure your computer is supposed to work once you assemble it yourself.
- mrtranscendence 3y ago
  I'm not sure I follow you here. I'm not saying that it should necessarily come with RAM, storage, and OS, which can be removed without disassembling the entire laptop. And I'm not making a statement one way or the other on whether you'll have to ensure your computer works. I'm only saying that it's funny to learn that Framework undergoes some effort to assemble and test the laptop only to undo that work so the buyer can assemble the entire thing. It might be for entirely good reasons, but that doesn't make it a bit funny prima facie.
  - mynameisvlad 3y ago
    > It might be for entirely good reasons, but that doesn't make it a bit funny prima facie. It might be funny, but your argument wasn't just that, it was that you wouldn't buy it because of this fact, which seems absurd. They're using known good hardware to make sure the parts they do send you will work. The hardware they're putting in and taking out prior to shipping will likely not even remotely be the parts you actually use since it's BYO. They're just there to make sure that what they do ship will work once assembled. As another commenter said, would you rather they didn't perform QA and just let the customer figure out that their mainboard is actually busted after spending time assembling it? That would be an exceptionally bad user experience.

kccqzy 3y ago

I don't know if magnesium is a common choice for computer enclosures, but one of the few examples of magnesium that I immediately recall (besides Surface) is a NeXT computer that went up in flames: https://simson.net/ref/1993/cubefire.html https://simson.net/ref/1993/cubefire.html

buildbot 3y ago
Pretty common! Many cameras use a cast magnesium frame too. It’s surprisingly hard to ignite! As your link explains it took them a bit haha.
loughnane 3y ago
The ms surface books were magnesium I think.
SeanLuke 3y ago
It's important to note that Simson Garfinkel had to go through extraordinary measures to get the NeXT cube to catch fire. Magnesium is pretty safe.
kcb 3y ago
Magnesium is pretty common in higher end Windows laptops.
lhl 3y ago
One additional note is that it's possible to make Magnesium alloys much more resistant to burning (adding Calcium and Yttrium for example): https://www.ait.ac.at/en/research-topics/casting-technologies/projects/flame-resistant-magnesium-alloys https://www.ait.ac.at/en/research-topics/casting-technologie... Related: * Testing of WE43/Elektron 21 vs AZ91, ZE41: https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/2010Conference/files/Magnesium_Use_In_Aircraft/LyonMagnesium/LyonWhymagnesiumalloysburnPres.pdf https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/2010Conference/files/Magnesium_U... * Final FAA evaluation of flammability of various magnesium alloys (for aircraft use): https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/ar11-13.pdf https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/ar11-13.pdf * The Wikipedia is a pretty good overview of a bunch of the material properties: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_alloy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_alloy For context btw, ignition temp (in furnace) for magnesium alloys is around 600C, which a house fire can reach: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010938X11004811 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00109...

rfwhyte 3y ago

Still waiting for the other shoe to drop with a pricing announcement. I keep getting almost excited about the Framework 16", but then I'm remember it's probably going to be well over $2500USD for a decently specced model (without a GPU even) and my excitement quickly dissipates.

bboygravity 3y ago
What's the alternative high quality laptop in that price-range though? A Dell XPS that comes with a lose trackpad, massive coil whine, batteries that drain when plugged in and so on? Or an LG Gram Pro (more expensive than Framework) that isn't sold outside of the US and maybe some Asian countries where the only thing you can upgrade is the SSD? Or maybe some Apple laptop? I personally feel the price of a Framework is fair, even if it is 2500 USD (or more). Not necessarily because Framework is great (I would prefer 17"), but more because the alternatives are worse or don't exist.
- fragmede 3y ago
  A Thinkpad T16 is going to be under $1,600.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    From [0], the only model under $1600 is bizarrely discounted 45% from $2849, which I assume is a limited-time offer. The lowest-end model costs $1959, and is pretty meh: 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, crap 720p camera. The higest-end model is also strangely 45%-off discounted, but runs $3769 regular. If the Framework 16 ends up costing $2500 (or even $3000) for a reasonably-spec'd setup, I think that'd be pretty fair, especially given the configurability and upgradeability. If you don't value those things, then you probably shouldn't be considering Framework in the first place. [0] https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadt/thinkpad-t16-(16-inch-intel)/len101t0017 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadt/th...
    - xarope 3y ago

RGamma 3y ago

Give it a trackpoint and it's mine!

Humbly8967 3y ago
System76 might be willing to collaborate on this. They are designing a trackpoint into their upcoming in-house laptop, and they make open hardware.
- geoka9 3y ago
  That's good to hear! Maybe they'll take cue from TEX[0] and source their TP modules from Lenovo, so that they feel the same. [0]https://tex.com.tw https://tex.com.tw
geoka9 3y ago
Or at least make the screen hinges 360 degrees so that it can be easily used with an external keyboard.

KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago

See also https://starlabs.systems/pages/starfighter https://starlabs.systems/pages/starfighter

rowanG077 3y ago
I don't get it. What does this has to do with the article?
- cultofmetatron 3y ago
  its am alternative linux laptop. probably brought up because this crowd mostly looks at framework to put linux on.
- DiabloD3 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - bodge5000 3y ago
    What other companies are selling anything like the Starfighter?
  - KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
    You stop shilling for System76, no matter how good their QA is, the actual product is trash. Their screens and casing are on the level of bargain store acer machines, not premium quality laptops. I want my Linux hardware to be on the level of Macs, "privacy" and "coreboot" are no excuse for lack of product vision and poor mechanical engineering.
    - DiabloD3 3y ago
      Who said I'm shilling for System76? If I'm buying a new laptop today, its gonna be a Framework. If I need to recommend something more inexpensive and casual, System76 exists, but I'd only recommend that to people have yet to fix their flawed thinking and think they don't want a Framework.

accrual 3y ago

I thought this line was interesting: > with no externally visible fasteners I wonder if it was easier or thinner to do that way, or if it was a deliberate design choice for a more minimal appearance. Personally I don't mind seeing fasteners. After swapping LCDs on my old Thinkpads a couple times, I stopped replacing the screw covers and embraced one fewer step for future maintenance.

marssaxman 3y ago
Visible fasteners are actually a plus for me - they are a signal that the device has a sane, maintainable design!
- bronson 3y ago
  My Macbook has visible fasteners and it doesn’t have a sane, maintainable design.
nrp 3y ago
Amazingly enough, we didn't go in with this as a design goal from the start. The Framework Laptop 13 has exposed fasteners on the Bottom Cover, and we went in assuming we'd go the same direction. As we designed the Input Module system, it became clear that the best way to design it was installing everything directly down into the Bottom Cover, meaning you don't need to flip the system over to unscrew anything. The result is a Bottom Cover that is super clean.
- Triangle9349 3y ago
  Sorry for the stupid question, what is the advantage of your new connection for gpu? why not oculink or pcie riser or thunderbolt?
  - nrp 3y ago
    PCIe is too physically large, Oculink is too thick and doesn't have enough pins for power, and Thunderbolt has protocol overhead and throughput limitations.

hypeatei 3y ago

"Deep dive" too soon...