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If this is decentralized/federated than they should make a bigger deal of that on the page, and if it's not, well, no thanks.

by jrm4 3y ago

DreamFlasher 3y ago
Fullack. Is it based on Matrix and federates with it? If no, no thanks.
- imtringued 3y ago
  I think the same thing. This should be a Matrix implementation with some implementation specific extensions that will be included in the standard in the future.
tredre3 3y ago
> We don't think federation is beneficial to Revolt and would actively hinder our stance on privacy. In short, federation is prone to leaking your metadata, could make removing your data harder, and we otherwise have no incentive to develop support if it we aren't able to use it for the main platform (revolt.chat). https://developers.revolt.chat/faq/federation https://developers.revolt.chat/faq/federation
- jrm4 3y ago
  Tough love coming then -- then unless we pay you directly, there's no good incentive for anyone to believe that you'll be able to always deliver your claimed advantages over Discord.
  - veave 3y ago
    They don't seem to claim any advantages over Discord, at least on their home page.
  - paulmd 3y ago
    It's self-hosted FOSS, you're not paying anyone directly and if you don't feel it delivers something you can write it yourself or pay to have it written. Anyway, this gets into a philosophical point about the whole Reddit exodus - ID federation and content federation are two different things, and when people talk about the friction of joining a forum vs clicking subscribe on reddit, ID federation is what gives you that, not content federation. And content federation introduces a lot of scalability problems, and difficulties deleting comments/etc. Yes, someone can notionally always crawl/cache you, but having it on your server is different from intentionally putting it out into a peer-to-peer CDN, or serving it to a bunch of different pods so they can put it in their members' feeds. Some people don't want that part, they want the content to stay on their self-hosted instance.
    - imtringued 3y ago
      Identity federation is dead because most apps only support a handful of oauth providers aka Google or Facebook or Apple instead of letting you choose one yourself. Identity federation also runs into the problem that oauth, etc don't let you have the same account on multiple oauth providers as a backup in case one of them shuts down.
- riskable 3y ago
  This is disingenuous considering there's plenty of Lemmy servers that aren't federated. Just because a thing supports federation doesn't mean it must be federated. If Revolt supported federation it would be trivial to just turn that feature off if you had privacy concerns in that regards.
  - djbusby 3y ago
    And default off, for privacy.
- jackothy 3y ago
  You should mention the big red warning box above that text: > Hold on, this article is quite old at this point, just a few things to keep in mind: > - Federation may end up being part of the project in some capacity in the future, just at the moment it is not part of any feature (at least publicly) on the roadmap. > - The complexity and time arguments below are still valid but may be necessary to tackle in the future. > If you have some general ideas on where and how federation could be implemented, feel free to drop into the Lounge #Revolt Development.
gigel82 3y ago
You can fully self host it (server and everything): https://github.com/revoltchat/self-hosted https://github.com/revoltchat/self-hosted This is for folks that want a self-governed / "no big brother" Discord alternative, it's quite nice for that purpose, but it's lacking the Discord integrations (audio chat, etc.) that make it better for gamers.
RobotToaster 3y ago
Not really necessary if the client can connect to multiple servers.
- Zambyte 3y ago
  Federated identity is pretty important for a seamless experience in the case where chat itself js not federated though. Otherwise you're still going to need to make a new account for every server you join, which is more friction than people want.

If this is decentralized/federated than they should make a bigger deal of that on the page, and if it's not, well, no thanks.

by jrm4 3y ago

If this is decentralized/federated than they should make a bigger deal of that on the page, and if it's not, well, no thanks.

DreamFlasher 3y ago

Fullack. Is it based on Matrix and federates with it? If no, no thanks.

imtringued 3y ago
I think the same thing. This should be a Matrix implementation with some implementation specific extensions that will be included in the standard in the future.

tredre3 3y ago

> We don't think federation is beneficial to Revolt and would actively hinder our stance on privacy. In short, federation is prone to leaking your metadata, could make removing your data harder, and we otherwise have no incentive to develop support if it we aren't able to use it for the main platform (revolt.chat). https://developers.revolt.chat/faq/federation https://developers.revolt.chat/faq/federation

jrm4 3y ago
Tough love coming then -- then unless we pay you directly, there's no good incentive for anyone to believe that you'll be able to always deliver your claimed advantages over Discord.
- veave 3y ago
  They don't seem to claim any advantages over Discord, at least on their home page.
- paulmd 3y ago
  It's self-hosted FOSS, you're not paying anyone directly and if you don't feel it delivers something you can write it yourself or pay to have it written. Anyway, this gets into a philosophical point about the whole Reddit exodus - ID federation and content federation are two different things, and when people talk about the friction of joining a forum vs clicking subscribe on reddit, ID federation is what gives you that, not content federation. And content federation introduces a lot of scalability problems, and difficulties deleting comments/etc. Yes, someone can notionally always crawl/cache you, but having it on your server is different from intentionally putting it out into a peer-to-peer CDN, or serving it to a bunch of different pods so they can put it in their members' feeds. Some people don't want that part, they want the content to stay on their self-hosted instance.
  - imtringued 3y ago
    Identity federation is dead because most apps only support a handful of oauth providers aka Google or Facebook or Apple instead of letting you choose one yourself. Identity federation also runs into the problem that oauth, etc don't let you have the same account on multiple oauth providers as a backup in case one of them shuts down.
riskable 3y ago
This is disingenuous considering there's plenty of Lemmy servers that aren't federated. Just because a thing supports federation doesn't mean it must be federated. If Revolt supported federation it would be trivial to just turn that feature off if you had privacy concerns in that regards.
- djbusby 3y ago
  And default off, for privacy.
jackothy 3y ago
You should mention the big red warning box above that text: > Hold on, this article is quite old at this point, just a few things to keep in mind: > - Federation may end up being part of the project in some capacity in the future, just at the moment it is not part of any feature (at least publicly) on the roadmap. > - The complexity and time arguments below are still valid but may be necessary to tackle in the future. > If you have some general ideas on where and how federation could be implemented, feel free to drop into the Lounge #Revolt Development.

gigel82 3y ago

You can fully self host it (server and everything): https://github.com/revoltchat/self-hosted https://github.com/revoltchat/self-hosted This is for folks that want a self-governed / "no big brother" Discord alternative, it's quite nice for that purpose, but it's lacking the Discord integrations (audio chat, etc.) that make it better for gamers.

RobotToaster 3y ago

Not really necessary if the client can connect to multiple servers.

Zambyte 3y ago
Federated identity is pretty important for a seamless experience in the case where chat itself js not federated though. Otherwise you're still going to need to make a new account for every server you join, which is more friction than people want.