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Imagine if _any_ other drug were described that way. "A sizable portion of the population using meth has no ability to behave when under the influence and proba

by ilaksh 3y ago

Imagine if _any_ other drug were described that way. "A sizable portion of the population using meth has no ability to behave when under the influence and probably shouldn't be doing meth." In other words, stop ruining it for the rest of us who can do meth responsibly. The alcohol industry has essentially brainwashed society into thinking that if you can't drink alcohol routinely without having some problem controlling yourself, then it's your own fault. And if you become addicted or have any other serious issues, you must have a serious genetic defect. Again, imagine if people said that about some other drug. "He can't hold his heroin. Runs in the family." Talk about effective marketing.

thefz 3y ago
Some people just have latent or submerged psychological issues that emerge with alcohol use and that's it. Angry drunks, sad drunks, horny drunks are all a symptom that uncovers.
biomcgary 3y ago
Society's perspective isn't just marketing. Alcohol engages the brain's reward center much less effectively / directly than heroin, so it is objectively less problematic. However, alcohol's prevalence means it has many more negative effects. I'd put sugar in a similar category.
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  Alcohol is not “objectively less problematic”. Just because it is less addictive doesn’t suddenly make it less problematic. It affects the brain directly, reducing your ability to think critically both short-term due to its inhibiting effects and long-term due to brain shrinkage. Meaning you are more likely to hurt those around you when you consume alcohol. It enhances the likelihood of giving into your “bad thoughts”, which is exactly why we see crime decrease when it is banned. Affects of heroin on the brain are more closely related to seeking the drug itself, rather than lowering inhibition across the board. Of course this still leads to negative behavior, such as theft or assault, but it doesn’t lead to domestic/sexual violence like alcohol can. Sugar literally cannot be compared to either of them. Caffeine has more of a case, frankly. While sugar has an incredible amount of health problems related to it, and is highly addictive (highly recommend “Salt Sugar Fat” by Michael Moss), it is not in the same league as alcohol or heroin. You are not holding up a gas station for sugar money, nor assaulting someone because your drunken brain thought they laughed at you. While society’s perspective isn’t just marketing, it is just plain wrong. We have normalized alcohol so readily because its been with us for millennia, that even when presented to the mountains of evidence over its damaging effects we just ignore it or, worse, play it off as a “problem for lightweights”.
  - caeril 3y ago
    > You are not holding up a gas station for sugar money Yeah, but you're holding up literally everyone in your society. When you get cancer from an unfortunate cosmic ray strike on the wrong strand of dna, but the Oncology department is backlogged for a month by people whose cancers were caused by chronic inflammation from overeating (primarily sugar), you're definitely being held up for proverbial sugar money.
skeaker 3y ago
Exact same sentiment for alcohol being a "rite of passage." Some people actually believe that drinking alcohol is a necessary step to life, as essential as graduating from school. It is genuinely some of the most insane marketing I have ever seen.
joenot443 3y ago
Society’s love of alcohol is literally thousands of years older than any notion of an associated alcohol industry. I’m quite sure the idea of some individuals “not being able to hold their drink” is an ancient one, not an invention of alcohol marketing.
- rstuart4133 3y ago
  > Society’s love of alcohol is literally thousands of years older than any notion of an associated alcohol industry. True, for some society's. As it happens it not true for the Australian aboriginal, and they are the ones running amok when here is an abundance of it. This story is very typical of what happen in every aboriginal community in Australia. It's only news here because Alice Springs has a white population, who don't like the chaos it causes and raise a stink. You don't hear about it on HN, but the smaller Aboriginal communities often ban grog from their communities in response, and have persuaded the government to pass laws to make it enforceable. This isn't some minor advertising ban. This is "if you make a mistake and fly in with a bottle of wine in your plane, your up for thousands of dollars of fines even if it's never leaves the plan or is opened". Or to flip it around, Australia has the highest methamphetamine addiction rate in the world, leading to things like this: https://www.9news.com.au/national/r/6e676d3e-16b0-48de-86d7-15c9d2cbc466 https://www.9news.com.au/national/r/6e676d3e-16b0-48de-86d7-... Meth is a white Australia problem, not black. But if we let Darwin have his way, then I'm sure in a millennia or so it won't be the big problem is it now. But for now white Australia's response is to ban meth.
- fragmede 3y ago
  Given that money was invented before written history began, it doesn't seem obvious that there was no alcohol industry for "thousands of years" before alcohol. Do you have a source for that claim?
  - joenot443 3y ago
    What does the alcohol industry in 0 AD look like to you? And do provide a source for that description.

by ilaksh 3y ago

thefz 3y ago

Some people just have latent or submerged psychological issues that emerge with alcohol use and that's it. Angry drunks, sad drunks, horny drunks are all a symptom that uncovers.

biomcgary 3y ago

Society's perspective isn't just marketing. Alcohol engages the brain's reward center much less effectively / directly than heroin, so it is objectively less problematic. However, alcohol's prevalence means it has many more negative effects. I'd put sugar in a similar category.

tourmalinetaco 3y ago
Alcohol is not “objectively less problematic”. Just because it is less addictive doesn’t suddenly make it less problematic. It affects the brain directly, reducing your ability to think critically both short-term due to its inhibiting effects and long-term due to brain shrinkage. Meaning you are more likely to hurt those around you when you consume alcohol. It enhances the likelihood of giving into your “bad thoughts”, which is exactly why we see crime decrease when it is banned. Affects of heroin on the brain are more closely related to seeking the drug itself, rather than lowering inhibition across the board. Of course this still leads to negative behavior, such as theft or assault, but it doesn’t lead to domestic/sexual violence like alcohol can. Sugar literally cannot be compared to either of them. Caffeine has more of a case, frankly. While sugar has an incredible amount of health problems related to it, and is highly addictive (highly recommend “Salt Sugar Fat” by Michael Moss), it is not in the same league as alcohol or heroin. You are not holding up a gas station for sugar money, nor assaulting someone because your drunken brain thought they laughed at you. While society’s perspective isn’t just marketing, it is just plain wrong. We have normalized alcohol so readily because its been with us for millennia, that even when presented to the mountains of evidence over its damaging effects we just ignore it or, worse, play it off as a “problem for lightweights”.
- caeril 3y ago
  > You are not holding up a gas station for sugar money Yeah, but you're holding up literally everyone in your society. When you get cancer from an unfortunate cosmic ray strike on the wrong strand of dna, but the Oncology department is backlogged for a month by people whose cancers were caused by chronic inflammation from overeating (primarily sugar), you're definitely being held up for proverbial sugar money.

skeaker 3y ago

Exact same sentiment for alcohol being a "rite of passage." Some people actually believe that drinking alcohol is a necessary step to life, as essential as graduating from school. It is genuinely some of the most insane marketing I have ever seen.

joenot443 3y ago

Society’s love of alcohol is literally thousands of years older than any notion of an associated alcohol industry. I’m quite sure the idea of some individuals “not being able to hold their drink” is an ancient one, not an invention of alcohol marketing.

rstuart4133 3y ago
> Society’s love of alcohol is literally thousands of years older than any notion of an associated alcohol industry. True, for some society's. As it happens it not true for the Australian aboriginal, and they are the ones running amok when here is an abundance of it. This story is very typical of what happen in every aboriginal community in Australia. It's only news here because Alice Springs has a white population, who don't like the chaos it causes and raise a stink. You don't hear about it on HN, but the smaller Aboriginal communities often ban grog from their communities in response, and have persuaded the government to pass laws to make it enforceable. This isn't some minor advertising ban. This is "if you make a mistake and fly in with a bottle of wine in your plane, your up for thousands of dollars of fines even if it's never leaves the plan or is opened". Or to flip it around, Australia has the highest methamphetamine addiction rate in the world, leading to things like this: https://www.9news.com.au/national/r/6e676d3e-16b0-48de-86d7-15c9d2cbc466 https://www.9news.com.au/national/r/6e676d3e-16b0-48de-86d7-... Meth is a white Australia problem, not black. But if we let Darwin have his way, then I'm sure in a millennia or so it won't be the big problem is it now. But for now white Australia's response is to ban meth.
fragmede 3y ago
Given that money was invented before written history began, it doesn't seem obvious that there was no alcohol industry for "thousands of years" before alcohol. Do you have a source for that claim?
- joenot443 3y ago
  What does the alcohol industry in 0 AD look like to you? And do provide a source for that description.