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I never got the impression that the community is claiming that Reddit doesn't produce any value. I've seen willingness to pay a reasonable amount from most peop

I never got the impression that the community is claiming that Reddit doesn't produce any value. I've seen willingness to pay a reasonable amount from most people. Reddit brings the platform, users bring the community. If Reddit flexes their muscles to force users to their will, it's only natural for users to flex back.

LanceH 3y ago
> I never got the impression that the community is claiming that Reddit doesn't produce any value. There are tons of statements all over the place on, "we produce all the value". There are statements in this very thread that Reddit brings little or nothing to the table. Yes, somehow, despite apparently building little to nothing, everyone coalesced around Reddit and not some grander effort. I can't explain Reddit or defend their actions, but the response looks more like a tantrum with petty people flexing what little power they have to feel important. The Api problem is just the excuse.
that_guy_iain 3y ago
What is a reasonable amount?
- ambicapter 3y ago
  Much, much less than what they were asking for. The top reddit app was being faced with a yearly bill in the tens of millions of dollars, and comparison to other social media website APIs saw a price discrepancy of 20x iirc.
  - that_guy_iain 3y ago
    The other social media API is Imgur. Pricing for Imgur is: $500 for 7.5m requests then $0.01 per request after that. Then $10,000 for 150m requests and $0.01 per request after that. Reddit is at $0.24 per 1,000. Or $0.00024 per request. Imgur is cheaper for 150m requests but Reddit is cheaper for 500m requests. So really, what is a reasonable pricing?
    - afterburner 3y ago
      Surely you see a difference between serving pictures and serving text.
      - Supermancho 3y ago
        APIs I am familiar with differ, primarily, on the size of the data and additional features (formats supported, timeliness, etc).
    - lostlogin 3y ago
      Is this a like with like comparison? Is delivering an image of comparable cost to delivering text via an api? I have zero experience in this area so could learn something.
      - that_guy_iain 3y ago
        It of. Usage wise it's a fair compassion. Both apps would get the same usage levels and type. Both sites serve - image, video, and text(comments or posts). Imgur would almost certainly be cheaper to run due to the simpler nature of the site. Imgur would just need checking the overall site for content. Reddit would be checking each of the subreddits for content and aggerating it. Which would be more complex and more expensive to run. Realistically, it's the best comparision there is.
        mynameisvlad 3y ago
        > Imgur would almost certainly be cheaper to run due to the simpler nature of the site. Imgur would just need checking the overall site for content. > Reddit would be checking each of the subreddits for content and aggerating it. Which would be more complex and more expensive to run. Did you even take a second to look at Imgur before confidently saying something so incorrect? The homepage clearly references tags, with individual posts a la subreddits. Also, it's not like each subreddit is an individual database table or something. You're making it seem like aggregation is a substantial cost when it's just a different DB query.
  - achikin 3y ago
    Reddit asked ~2M$ per month. In his rant Apollo creator told that he‘ll be ok paying half of that. Can you imagine how much is he making on free Reddit APIs?
    - kimbernator 3y ago
      Can you imagine how much engagement the platform gets as a result of his work? Just saying, it's never fair to try and say any one party in this arrangement is just leeching off another. Reddit provides a platform, Users provide the community, and third-party app developers make interaction between the other two easier. Third-party apps aren't even able to engage with certain reddit content because the API never exposed it, but people still choose them; That says a lot about how they feel about the official app, and the real value that third-party devs provide. What's crazy to me is that Reddit could have easily achieved their goals by just investing in developing a really good native app that people want to use, thereby monetizing them while also building goodwill! This whole thing could be achieved and make them look -better-. But they are making stupid short-term decisions to be able to IPO and they chose the stick over the carrot.
- michaelt 3y ago
  According to [1] in Q1 2023 Facebook had revenue of $48.85 from the average US/Canada user, and $9.62 per user worldwide. Reddit, on the other hand, makes <$1 per user worldwide. So, a reasonable price would be somewhere between $4 and $200 per year /s [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/251328/facebooks-average-revenue-per-user-by-region/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/251328/facebooks-average...
- kimbernator 3y ago
  An amount that doesn't mean immediate death to all third-party apps would be a good start. I don't know what the right number is, but Reddit has made it abundantly clear with this move that they aren't interested in finding it. Honestly, I doubt there is one anymore (for me at least). Any trust I had for their corporate leadership before has completely evaporated. If they were to lower the prices to a "reasonable" level now it would indicate that they either capitulated (but didn't get to do what they really wanted and probably will try again later) or they are just being manipulative and wanted to use this as a way to show "goodwill" by bringing the price down. The concept of the fediverse these days has me hopeful for a time where we don't need to worry about these big dumb corporate interests holding our data and the control over it hostage. Any publicly owned (or private trying to go public) organization with a profit incentive is bound to make stupid, short-term decisions eventually, and this is just one of many of Reddit's forays into that arena. They will continue to get worse and worse, regardless of how effective the protesting is.
HDThoreaun 3y ago
Reddit's revenue per user is utterly trash compared to every other social media site. I don't think it's unreasonable for them to want to close the gap.

LanceH 3y ago

> I never got the impression that the community is claiming that Reddit doesn't produce any value. There are tons of statements all over the place on, "we produce all the value". There are statements in this very thread that Reddit brings little or nothing to the table. Yes, somehow, despite apparently building little to nothing, everyone coalesced around Reddit and not some grander effort. I can't explain Reddit or defend their actions, but the response looks more like a tantrum with petty people flexing what little power they have to feel important. The Api problem is just the excuse.

that_guy_iain 3y ago

What is a reasonable amount?

ambicapter 3y ago
Much, much less than what they were asking for. The top reddit app was being faced with a yearly bill in the tens of millions of dollars, and comparison to other social media website APIs saw a price discrepancy of 20x iirc.
- that_guy_iain 3y ago
  The other social media API is Imgur. Pricing for Imgur is: $500 for 7.5m requests then $0.01 per request after that. Then $10,000 for 150m requests and $0.01 per request after that. Reddit is at $0.24 per 1,000. Or $0.00024 per request. Imgur is cheaper for 150m requests but Reddit is cheaper for 500m requests. So really, what is a reasonable pricing?
  - afterburner 3y ago
    Surely you see a difference between serving pictures and serving text.
    - Supermancho 3y ago
      APIs I am familiar with differ, primarily, on the size of the data and additional features (formats supported, timeliness, etc).
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    Is this a like with like comparison? Is delivering an image of comparable cost to delivering text via an api? I have zero experience in this area so could learn something.
    - that_guy_iain 3y ago
      It of. Usage wise it's a fair compassion. Both apps would get the same usage levels and type. Both sites serve - image, video, and text(comments or posts). Imgur would almost certainly be cheaper to run due to the simpler nature of the site. Imgur would just need checking the overall site for content. Reddit would be checking each of the subreddits for content and aggerating it. Which would be more complex and more expensive to run. Realistically, it's the best comparision there is.
      - mynameisvlad 3y ago
        > Imgur would almost certainly be cheaper to run due to the simpler nature of the site. Imgur would just need checking the overall site for content. > Reddit would be checking each of the subreddits for content and aggerating it. Which would be more complex and more expensive to run. Did you even take a second to look at Imgur before confidently saying something so incorrect? The homepage clearly references tags, with individual posts a la subreddits. Also, it's not like each subreddit is an individual database table or something. You're making it seem like aggregation is a substantial cost when it's just a different DB query.
- achikin 3y ago
  Reddit asked ~2M$ per month. In his rant Apollo creator told that he‘ll be ok paying half of that. Can you imagine how much is he making on free Reddit APIs?
  - kimbernator 3y ago
    Can you imagine how much engagement the platform gets as a result of his work? Just saying, it's never fair to try and say any one party in this arrangement is just leeching off another. Reddit provides a platform, Users provide the community, and third-party app developers make interaction between the other two easier. Third-party apps aren't even able to engage with certain reddit content because the API never exposed it, but people still choose them; That says a lot about how they feel about the official app, and the real value that third-party devs provide. What's crazy to me is that Reddit could have easily achieved their goals by just investing in developing a really good native app that people want to use, thereby monetizing them while also building goodwill! This whole thing could be achieved and make them look -better-. But they are making stupid short-term decisions to be able to IPO and they chose the stick over the carrot.
michaelt 3y ago
According to [1] in Q1 2023 Facebook had revenue of $48.85 from the average US/Canada user, and $9.62 per user worldwide. Reddit, on the other hand, makes <$1 per user worldwide. So, a reasonable price would be somewhere between $4 and $200 per year /s [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/251328/facebooks-average-revenue-per-user-by-region/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/251328/facebooks-average...
kimbernator 3y ago
An amount that doesn't mean immediate death to all third-party apps would be a good start. I don't know what the right number is, but Reddit has made it abundantly clear with this move that they aren't interested in finding it. Honestly, I doubt there is one anymore (for me at least). Any trust I had for their corporate leadership before has completely evaporated. If they were to lower the prices to a "reasonable" level now it would indicate that they either capitulated (but didn't get to do what they really wanted and probably will try again later) or they are just being manipulative and wanted to use this as a way to show "goodwill" by bringing the price down. The concept of the fediverse these days has me hopeful for a time where we don't need to worry about these big dumb corporate interests holding our data and the control over it hostage. Any publicly owned (or private trying to go public) organization with a profit incentive is bound to make stupid, short-term decisions eventually, and this is just one of many of Reddit's forays into that arena. They will continue to get worse and worse, regardless of how effective the protesting is.

HDThoreaun 3y ago

Reddit's revenue per user is utterly trash compared to every other social media site. I don't think it's unreasonable for them to want to close the gap.