4 ms·

Abortion is not killing, abortion is healthcare. Yes, I realize one's set of values will create disagreement on this, I'm not trying to build consensus here, bu

Abortion is not killing, abortion is healthcare. Yes, I realize one's set of values will create disagreement on this, I'm not trying to build consensus here, but can't let such a statement about "killing" go uncommented on.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
Most abortions are not healthcare.
- HelloMcFly 3y ago
  Categorically false
- Timon3 3y ago
  All abortions are healthcare. Not every abortion is required to save the mothers life, but that doesn't mean it's not healthcare.
timw4mail 3y ago
Abortion as "birth control" is killing. That is not health care.
- Goronmon 3y ago
  Abortion as "birth control" is killing. That is not health care. It's absolutely healthcare, as much as your virtue-signaling wants to pretend otherwise.
- mrpopo 3y ago
  No one uses periodic abortions as birth control, except in US right-wing media horror stories.
BillWyeRex 3y ago
I'm generally pro-choice but this reckless disingenuity employed by abortion advocates is appalling. An abortion is not as routine as having a skin tag removed. It is a serious, life-changing decision that ought to come with an appropriate level of counselling, reflection, and consideration.
- HelloMcFly 3y ago
  You're arguing against a straw man, like so many conservatives, who think people like me view abortion as skin tag removal. It is a major healthcare decision, it has major consequences, it's not trivial. Be appalled at thine own reckless interpretations.
- Goronmon 3y ago
  I'm generally pro-choice but this reckless disingenuity employed by abortion advocates is appalling. What exactly do you find "reckless disingenuity" about referring to an abortion as healthcare? Nothing about that signals recklessness. Healthcare can refer to "skin tag removal" as you mentioned, it can also refer to cancer treatments, emergency surgery, etc.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  The comment you’ve replied to didn’t compare it to getting a skin tag removed, they called it healthcare. Healthcare covers all sort of procedures, with various levels of moral weight attached. Regardless, it is up to the patient how much counseling, reflection, and consideration they feel they need. If you get an abortion you ought to have the right to seek counseling before or after if you want, it is up to you.
swexbe 3y ago
It can be both, just like assisted suicide. Not sure how this has any effect on my argument. Advertising for an assisted suicide clinic, no matter your views on assisted suicide, is not the same as advertising for a sucide hotline. I think this is a fair comparison.
GloomyBoots 3y ago
A fetus is a human organism (this is the consensus among biologists, including pro-choice ones). Induced abortion is killing. You can make arguments as to why this is justified, but that doesn’t change that it is taking a life. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3211703 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3211703
- HelloMcFly 3y ago
  This paper asks the wrong questions. Yes, a fertizilized egg is "alive" in the same way sperm is "alive". The paper essentially uses the question of when the development of a human begins to argue: 1. Anything living is wrong to kill. 2. Human embryos and early fetuses are living 3. Therefore, human embryos shouldn't be "killed" #1 is clearly wrong, #2 is a misdirect, #3 leads to the author's desired conclusion as a result. That paper based on the presumption that "opponents" argue that fetuses are not biologically living organisms. Fertilized eggs and embryos are living human organisms certainly, but it's not a person yet. Is an egg a chicken? Is a seed a tree? Is a caterpillar a butterfly? Is a collection of human cells with the potential to become a human, human? I believe "no" to all of the above. Potential for development into a more complex living organism is not the same as being that other organism.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago

Most abortions are not healthcare.

HelloMcFly 3y ago
Categorically false
Timon3 3y ago
All abortions are healthcare. Not every abortion is required to save the mothers life, but that doesn't mean it's not healthcare.

timw4mail 3y ago

Abortion as "birth control" is killing. That is not health care.

Goronmon 3y ago
Abortion as "birth control" is killing. That is not health care. It's absolutely healthcare, as much as your virtue-signaling wants to pretend otherwise.
mrpopo 3y ago
No one uses periodic abortions as birth control, except in US right-wing media horror stories.

BillWyeRex 3y ago

I'm generally pro-choice but this reckless disingenuity employed by abortion advocates is appalling. An abortion is not as routine as having a skin tag removed. It is a serious, life-changing decision that ought to come with an appropriate level of counselling, reflection, and consideration.

HelloMcFly 3y ago
You're arguing against a straw man, like so many conservatives, who think people like me view abortion as skin tag removal. It is a major healthcare decision, it has major consequences, it's not trivial. Be appalled at thine own reckless interpretations.
Goronmon 3y ago
I'm generally pro-choice but this reckless disingenuity employed by abortion advocates is appalling. What exactly do you find "reckless disingenuity" about referring to an abortion as healthcare? Nothing about that signals recklessness. Healthcare can refer to "skin tag removal" as you mentioned, it can also refer to cancer treatments, emergency surgery, etc.
bee_rider 3y ago
The comment you’ve replied to didn’t compare it to getting a skin tag removed, they called it healthcare. Healthcare covers all sort of procedures, with various levels of moral weight attached. Regardless, it is up to the patient how much counseling, reflection, and consideration they feel they need. If you get an abortion you ought to have the right to seek counseling before or after if you want, it is up to you.

swexbe 3y ago

It can be both, just like assisted suicide. Not sure how this has any effect on my argument. Advertising for an assisted suicide clinic, no matter your views on assisted suicide, is not the same as advertising for a sucide hotline. I think this is a fair comparison.

GloomyBoots 3y ago

A fetus is a human organism (this is the consensus among biologists, including pro-choice ones). Induced abortion is killing. You can make arguments as to why this is justified, but that doesn’t change that it is taking a life. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3211703 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3211703

HelloMcFly 3y ago
This paper asks the wrong questions. Yes, a fertizilized egg is "alive" in the same way sperm is "alive". The paper essentially uses the question of when the development of a human begins to argue: 1. Anything living is wrong to kill. 2. Human embryos and early fetuses are living 3. Therefore, human embryos shouldn't be "killed" #1 is clearly wrong, #2 is a misdirect, #3 leads to the author's desired conclusion as a result. That paper based on the presumption that "opponents" argue that fetuses are not biologically living organisms. Fertilized eggs and embryos are living human organisms certainly, but it's not a person yet. Is an egg a chicken? Is a seed a tree? Is a caterpillar a butterfly? Is a collection of human cells with the potential to become a human, human? I believe "no" to all of the above. Potential for development into a more complex living organism is not the same as being that other organism.