6 ms·

From my point of view, as someone who is pro life, it’s fine; it’s like showing anti-suicide line when you look for “how to kill myself” Sure the person wants

From my point of view, as someone who is pro life, it’s fine; it’s like showing anti-suicide line when you look for “how to kill myself” Sure the person wants to kill himself but should he.

rajamaka 3y ago
Do you think abortion clinics should be advertised when people search "churches near me"?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Freak_NL 3y ago
  Local humanist support groups or recommended atheist reading perhaps. Maybe a link to neutral questionnaire where you can figure how many (if any) and which gods would be suitable for you, before committing to any specific religion. There's probably some elder god more in line with your ethics you overlooked after all.
Timon3 3y ago
Then it would only be fair if abortion clinics show up on any searches for pediatricians, anything related to birth preparation, schools and the like.
- swexbe 3y ago
  False equivalence. Killing something and trying to stop someone from killing something is not the same.
  - Goronmon 3y ago
    False equivalence. It's not false equivalence just because you don't like what the comparison says about your stance on an issue. Pro-life stances are mainly about virtue-signaling anyways.
    - Freak_NL 3y ago
      > Pro-life stances are mainly about virtue-signaling anyways. Anti-abortion, anti-LGBTQ+ stuff, anti-vaxx, anti-CRT (US specific), pro-Putin; often these seem just shibboleths to signal group membership.
  - HelloMcFly 3y ago
    Abortion is not killing, abortion is healthcare. Yes, I realize one's set of values will create disagreement on this, I'm not trying to build consensus here, but can't let such a statement about "killing" go uncommented on.
    - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
      Most abortions are not healthcare.
      - HelloMcFly 3y ago
        Categorically false
      - Timon3 3y ago
        All abortions are healthcare. Not every abortion is required to save the mothers life, but that doesn't mean it's not healthcare.
    - timw4mail 3y ago
      Abortion as "birth control" is killing. That is not health care.
      - Goronmon 3y ago
        Abortion as "birth control" is killing. That is not health care. It's absolutely healthcare, as much as your virtue-signaling wants to pretend otherwise.
      - mrpopo 3y ago
        No one uses periodic abortions as birth control, except in US right-wing media horror stories.
    - BillWyeRex 3y ago
      I'm generally pro-choice but this reckless disingenuity employed by abortion advocates is appalling. An abortion is not as routine as having a skin tag removed. It is a serious, life-changing decision that ought to come with an appropriate level of counselling, reflection, and consideration.
  - Timon3 3y ago
    You're trying to push your morality on everyone. It's fine if you consider abortion to be murder, but the majority doesn't. Google for anti-abortion stuff all you like! But don't make it show up on unrelated searches, if you don't also want the opposite to happen.
    - swexbe 3y ago
      Please, I'm literally just saying it wasn't a good comparison.
      - Timon3 3y ago
        But it's only not a good comparison from your point of view. From mine (and that of many others) it's perfectly apt.
  - pron 3y ago
    That anyone is killed in an abortion is a minority opinion. Some thing, however, is also killed every time you wash your hands.
    - swexbe 3y ago
      Only if you disregard everyone outside USA/EU.
      - pron 3y ago
        And China and India and Muslim countries. An absolutist aversion to abortion is a rather uniquely Christian position and the issue is not so hot outside of majority Christian countries and can be largely considered a peculiarly Christian matter. The second most negative view is probably in Buddhism (which, at least according to Wikipedia, also believes the foetus to be some form of a living human). Other religions may frown upon abortion and forbid it in some situations, but they still don't consider the foetus to be a person.
        swexbe 3y ago
        "Most Indians oppose legal abortion" (https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/03/02/son-preference-and-abortion/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/03/02/son-preferen...) "Classical Hindu texts are strongly opposed to abortion: one text compares abortion to the killing of a priest another text considers abortion a worse sin than killing one's parents another text says that a woman who aborts her child will lose her caste" (https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/hinduethics/abortion_1.shtml https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/hinduethic...) Abortion is illegal in a majority of Muslim majority countries. The exceptions are usually post soviet states
        GloomyBoots 3y ago
        There’s a funny, widespread phenomenon of people invoking cultural relativity and Christian particularism specifically on issues with the most cross-cultural consensus.
growingkittens 3y ago
That's not the reality, though. Anti-choice entities pretend to be legitimate clinics to draw people in.
- docandrew 3y ago
  Don’t abortion clinics do the same thing? Planned Parenthood isn’t called Planned Unparenthood. The whole abortion industry is based on euphemisms like your use of “choice” to avoid describing what’s really taking place.
  - jtgeibel 3y ago
    Do you honestly believe that the name Planned Parenthood is confusing to the point of being intentionally deceptive?
    - xdennis 3y ago
      Yes. Proponents of abortion (a neutral term) use terms that minimize the actions they are taking to deceive and lessen the guilt of what they are doing. * terminating the life of a fetus isn't "infanticide" it's a "choice" * an abortion clinic isn't "an execution center" it's "a medical center" * people who are against abortion aren't "pro-life" they're "anti-choice" * abortion isn't "child murder" it's "healthcare" They do this to normalize their actions. If they spent one second contemplating what they are doing from a neutral point of view it would be terrifying. A la "I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream".
      - Timon3 3y ago
        Wow, it's incredible just how much you're warping language. > terminating the life of a fetus isn't "infanticide" it's a "choice" To make abortion sound worse, you redefine infanticide. Encyclopedia Britannica says: "infanticide, the killing of the newborn" - notice how being born is a necessary precondition? > an abortion clinic isn't "an execution center" it's "a medical center" Yes, just like any other place that does healthcare. > people who are against abortion aren't "pro-life" they're "anti-choice" Yes, you want to take people's choice away. > abortion isn't "child murder" it's "healthcare" Yes, because the child develops during pregnancy, it's not there from the moment of conception. Makes it pretty difficult to murder a child if there is no child yet. But that's what you have to do to make your arguments work - there is no logical basis, so you have to warp everything around you to hopefully find some way to manipulate those around you.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mrpopo 3y ago
It's not like that, please read the article. The ads are deceiving people into thinking they are going to an abortion clinic. Google never banned anti-abortion ads, but they do ban misleading advertising.
pron 3y ago
The same could be said for anti-vaxx websites appearing first when searching for vaccine information, and creationist websites appearing first when searching for information on natural history. Even if you don't think that the opinion of the respective professional/experts should be boosted over the opinion of people who are primarily not relevant professionals/experts, surely prioritising the the view of the overwhelming majority would be a more reasonable natural stance.
the_mar 3y ago
Gross. No. The difference there is no deception in suicide prevention. As you can see in the screenshots in the article, the anti-abortion clinics do pose as abortion clinics, instead of providing the person with facts. Google had to make an extra label for this saying “provides abortion” and “does not provide abortions” because it is impossible to tell. I would have no problem with pro life sites showing up that are open about it. When you google “how to kill yourself”, the suicide hotline does not hide behind “5 easy steps to killing yourself”
manfre 3y ago
If the fake abortion centers advertised with a similar, up front, "why you shouldn't" message, it wouldn't be unethical. Their current practice is fraudulent.
epakai 3y ago
It's nothing like a "line". The purpose there is to inform or make known the potential for misleading information. If these ads were to tout the support they provided for the obvious alternative they would be comparable. They are, instead, deceivers.
fwjlwo 3y ago
I'm "pro-life" too and don't want to control ppl's bodies. I think that, from an evolutionary stand view, everyone is pro life :) You comparison is completely bogus. Someone suic1dal is in need of help and support. Women who choose to have an ab0rtion is (not always) completely conscious of their choice when they get to the poine of looking for a clinic on Google.

From my point of view, as someone who is pro life, it’s fine; it’s like showing anti-suicide line when you look for “how to kill myself” Sure the person wants to kill himself but should he.

rajamaka 3y ago

Do you think abortion clinics should be advertised when people search "churches near me"?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Freak_NL 3y ago
Local humanist support groups or recommended atheist reading perhaps. Maybe a link to neutral questionnaire where you can figure how many (if any) and which gods would be suitable for you, before committing to any specific religion. There's probably some elder god more in line with your ethics you overlooked after all.

Timon3 3y ago

Then it would only be fair if abortion clinics show up on any searches for pediatricians, anything related to birth preparation, schools and the like.

swexbe 3y ago
False equivalence. Killing something and trying to stop someone from killing something is not the same.
- Goronmon 3y ago
  False equivalence. It's not false equivalence just because you don't like what the comparison says about your stance on an issue. Pro-life stances are mainly about virtue-signaling anyways.
  - Freak_NL 3y ago
    > Pro-life stances are mainly about virtue-signaling anyways. Anti-abortion, anti-LGBTQ+ stuff, anti-vaxx, anti-CRT (US specific), pro-Putin; often these seem just shibboleths to signal group membership.
- HelloMcFly 3y ago
  Abortion is not killing, abortion is healthcare. Yes, I realize one's set of values will create disagreement on this, I'm not trying to build consensus here, but can't let such a statement about "killing" go uncommented on.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    Most abortions are not healthcare.
    - HelloMcFly 3y ago
      Categorically false
    - Timon3 3y ago
      All abortions are healthcare. Not every abortion is required to save the mothers life, but that doesn't mean it's not healthcare.
  - timw4mail 3y ago
    Abortion as "birth control" is killing. That is not health care.
    - Goronmon 3y ago
      Abortion as "birth control" is killing. That is not health care. It's absolutely healthcare, as much as your virtue-signaling wants to pretend otherwise.
    - mrpopo 3y ago
      No one uses periodic abortions as birth control, except in US right-wing media horror stories.
  - BillWyeRex 3y ago
    I'm generally pro-choice but this reckless disingenuity employed by abortion advocates is appalling. An abortion is not as routine as having a skin tag removed. It is a serious, life-changing decision that ought to come with an appropriate level of counselling, reflection, and consideration.
- Timon3 3y ago
  You're trying to push your morality on everyone. It's fine if you consider abortion to be murder, but the majority doesn't. Google for anti-abortion stuff all you like! But don't make it show up on unrelated searches, if you don't also want the opposite to happen.
  - swexbe 3y ago
    Please, I'm literally just saying it wasn't a good comparison.
    - Timon3 3y ago
      But it's only not a good comparison from your point of view. From mine (and that of many others) it's perfectly apt.
- pron 3y ago
  That anyone is killed in an abortion is a minority opinion. Some thing, however, is also killed every time you wash your hands.
  - swexbe 3y ago
    Only if you disregard everyone outside USA/EU.
    - pron 3y ago
      And China and India and Muslim countries. An absolutist aversion to abortion is a rather uniquely Christian position and the issue is not so hot outside of majority Christian countries and can be largely considered a peculiarly Christian matter. The second most negative view is probably in Buddhism (which, at least according to Wikipedia, also believes the foetus to be some form of a living human). Other religions may frown upon abortion and forbid it in some situations, but they still don't consider the foetus to be a person.
      - swexbe 3y ago
        "Most Indians oppose legal abortion" (https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/03/02/son-preference-and-abortion/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/03/02/son-preferen...) "Classical Hindu texts are strongly opposed to abortion: one text compares abortion to the killing of a priest another text considers abortion a worse sin than killing one's parents another text says that a woman who aborts her child will lose her caste" (https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/hinduethics/abortion_1.shtml https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/hinduethic...) Abortion is illegal in a majority of Muslim majority countries. The exceptions are usually post soviet states
        GloomyBoots 3y ago
        There’s a funny, widespread phenomenon of people invoking cultural relativity and Christian particularism specifically on issues with the most cross-cultural consensus.

growingkittens 3y ago

That's not the reality, though. Anti-choice entities pretend to be legitimate clinics to draw people in.

docandrew 3y ago
Don’t abortion clinics do the same thing? Planned Parenthood isn’t called Planned Unparenthood. The whole abortion industry is based on euphemisms like your use of “choice” to avoid describing what’s really taking place.
- jtgeibel 3y ago
  Do you honestly believe that the name Planned Parenthood is confusing to the point of being intentionally deceptive?
  - xdennis 3y ago
    Yes. Proponents of abortion (a neutral term) use terms that minimize the actions they are taking to deceive and lessen the guilt of what they are doing. * terminating the life of a fetus isn't "infanticide" it's a "choice" * an abortion clinic isn't "an execution center" it's "a medical center" * people who are against abortion aren't "pro-life" they're "anti-choice" * abortion isn't "child murder" it's "healthcare" They do this to normalize their actions. If they spent one second contemplating what they are doing from a neutral point of view it would be terrifying. A la "I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream".
    - Timon3 3y ago
      Wow, it's incredible just how much you're warping language. > terminating the life of a fetus isn't "infanticide" it's a "choice" To make abortion sound worse, you redefine infanticide. Encyclopedia Britannica says: "infanticide, the killing of the newborn" - notice how being born is a necessary precondition? > an abortion clinic isn't "an execution center" it's "a medical center" Yes, just like any other place that does healthcare. > people who are against abortion aren't "pro-life" they're "anti-choice" Yes, you want to take people's choice away. > abortion isn't "child murder" it's "healthcare" Yes, because the child develops during pregnancy, it's not there from the moment of conception. Makes it pretty difficult to murder a child if there is no child yet. But that's what you have to do to make your arguments work - there is no logical basis, so you have to warp everything around you to hopefully find some way to manipulate those around you.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

mrpopo 3y ago

It's not like that, please read the article. The ads are deceiving people into thinking they are going to an abortion clinic. Google never banned anti-abortion ads, but they do ban misleading advertising.

pron 3y ago

The same could be said for anti-vaxx websites appearing first when searching for vaccine information, and creationist websites appearing first when searching for information on natural history. Even if you don't think that the opinion of the respective professional/experts should be boosted over the opinion of people who are primarily not relevant professionals/experts, surely prioritising the the view of the overwhelming majority would be a more reasonable natural stance.

the_mar 3y ago

Gross. No. The difference there is no deception in suicide prevention. As you can see in the screenshots in the article, the anti-abortion clinics do pose as abortion clinics, instead of providing the person with facts. Google had to make an extra label for this saying “provides abortion” and “does not provide abortions” because it is impossible to tell. I would have no problem with pro life sites showing up that are open about it. When you google “how to kill yourself”, the suicide hotline does not hide behind “5 easy steps to killing yourself”

manfre 3y ago

If the fake abortion centers advertised with a similar, up front, "why you shouldn't" message, it wouldn't be unethical. Their current practice is fraudulent.

epakai 3y ago

It's nothing like a "line". The purpose there is to inform or make known the potential for misleading information. If these ads were to tout the support they provided for the obvious alternative they would be comparable. They are, instead, deceivers.

fwjlwo 3y ago

I'm "pro-life" too and don't want to control ppl's bodies. I think that, from an evolutionary stand view, everyone is pro life :) You comparison is completely bogus. Someone suic1dal is in need of help and support. Women who choose to have an ab0rtion is (not always) completely conscious of their choice when they get to the poine of looking for a clinic on Google.