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Ironically enough this is exactly what the tone for drugs was in the early mid sixties. Then the summer of love happened and people couldn't ignore tweens whori

Ironically enough this is exactly what the tone for drugs was in the early mid sixties. Then the summer of love happened and people couldn't ignore tweens whoring themselves out for smack because they expanded their consciousness first. Look at the size of the average American. They can't handle cheese responsibly. But we're supposed to think that now they'll manage acid?

silveraxe93 3y ago
Have you ever done acid? If you want to reduce drug use, you should legalise LSD and make it easy to buy. Your average American that "can't handle cheese responsibly" will try it once, have a terrible 12h and swear off drugs for life. With no long term health effects from one dose.
- BasedAnon 3y ago
  >Your average American that "can't handle cheese responsibly" will try it once, have a terrible 12h and swear off drugs for life You severely underestimate how much most people want to escape their lives, even if the experience is negative. It's silly to act like people don't self-harm.
  - silveraxe93 3y ago
    If they want to escape their lives they'll just become an alcoholic. I'm not denying that people will self-harm. But the argument that people will self-harm with LSD needs to ignore that there's plenty of better drugs legalised already
    - BasedAnon 3y ago
      Alcohol is much worse than LSD
      - soligern 3y ago
        In a way. It has much worse physical outcomes over the long term especially if you’re drinking humongous amounts. However, alcohol/nicotine etc. don’t change your modality of thought processes or your underlying perspectives on life. Anecdotally from that perspective LSD is way, way more destructive. It can reconstruct you as a shell of the person you were, and very quickly. I’ve seen it happen so many times and anyone arguing the alcohol is worse than LSD is missing the forest for the tree.
        skyyler 3y ago
        >However, alcohol/nicotine etc. don’t change your modality of thought processes or your underlying perspectives on life. Go to a couple of AA meetings and say that again.
        thr_msc 3y ago
        [flagged]
        soligern 3y ago
        [dead]
  - pixl97 3y ago
    >You severely underestimate how much most people want to escape their lives Hey, lets optimize society for human happiness and enjoyment without escapism then... Moloch: "Now just hold the fuck up, I have some corporations to run"
- rocketbop 3y ago
  Yea for sure. Mushrooms and LSD are not really popular and not drugs drug addicts gravitate towards. I don’t thin legalisation would hugely increase use.
  - spoiler 3y ago
    Not to mention that due to tolerance build up, you can't take LSD/psilocybin too often. And also, they don't "make you" wanna take them often either. This might be anecdotal, but even though they can be fun, but they're also very exhausting and make you introspective and also kinda encourage you to think about improving different aspec of your life. Sure, there's some bad trips that make people psychotic, but I think that legalisation and regulations would help protect those peope, rather than harm them, because there's usually an underlying condition that triggers such an episode. On the flip side, I've had bad trips a few times and they usually taught me a lot about myself, the people around me, and how I lived life at the, which in turn pushed me to change for the better, and improve some aspects of my life.
    - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
      >Not to mention that due to tolerance build up, you can't take LSD/psilocybin too often. And also, they don't "make you" wanna take them often either. these arguments never seem to have a separate addictive from non-addictive drugs component.
    - sowbug 3y ago
      Not that I have any data to back up this anecdote, but you don't see people in rehab for tryptamines. But you do for alcohol, coke, heroin, and meth.
- Communitivity 3y ago
  "no long term health effects from one dose" does not account for the possibility of persistent flashbacks, or for bad trips that can cause lasting psychological trauma. LSD bonds with something in the brain, such that it causes persistent flashbacks more than any other hallucinogen, sometimes years later. Taking it just once to try it might not have any effect, or might cause flashbacks for the rest of your life. Depends on your personal neurochemistry, the dosage, form of dosing, and your mental state. A friend who had taken LSD described it to me once something like this: LSD sometimes takes any cracks (neurosis or psychosis) in your mind and expands them wide open, forcing you to look into them. If you're aware of them already and they're minor, it can be helpful, sometimes expanding your mind to new capabilities. If you've been unaware or worse, in denial, or they're major, then you get a bad trip that may come back to haunt you over and over again over the years. Flashbacks that continue to occur after the original drug effects have worn off are a medically recognized phenomenon, which is documented in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) as hallucinogen persisting perception disorder. Flashbacks typically happen in the days or weeks following ingestion of the drug but can happen months or even years after the drug use has been discontinued.
  - silveraxe93 3y ago
    Eh... fine. People won't come out unscathed in literally all cases. However the risk from one dose is minimal. If your risk threshold is so close to 0 then we should be banning way more things today.
  - scrozart 3y ago
    I've done LSD numerous times, including "heroic" doses, as have many of my friends, starting 30 years ago (I haven't in a while as i no longer feel the need to blow open those doors). Not one of us has ever had a single flashback, let alone "persistent" flashbacks. If they were ever really an issue, it was long ago with different/absurdly strong formulations.
  - GuB-42 3y ago
    I don't believe in the "LSD binds to something in the brain and this causes flashbacks". LSD obviously binds to something in the brain during the trip, like all psychoactive substances, but after that, it is gone. LSD degrades relatively easily, you only get micrograms of it and there are known metabolic pathways. A more convincing theory for flashbacks is that they are similar to PTSD. LSD can give really intense and memorable experiences, and in the case of a bad trip, they can be considered traumatic. Symptoms show similarities too. Essentially, flashbacks are just memories, good or bad, and in the worst cases, so bad as to haunt you for years. Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) is not like flashbacks. As the name suggests, it affects perception, i.e. senses, commonly in the form of visual noise, distinct from what is experienced during a trip. Think something like tinnitus. We know it exists, but the details are unclear.
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  The Netherlands has struggled to commercialize a safe psychedelic. LSD is not so dangerous per se if you are in good hands. It does leave you discombobulated for 12 hours or so and put somebody into a strange and sketchy city like Amsterdam and some of them will get into trouble. Mushrooms are a little better because the duration is shorter but they still didn't find the problems acceptable. They tried the stimulating and hallucinatory 2C-T2 which is somehow entirely non-cosmic but I think even that failed market testing. After all these years a pastor I know is providing psilocybin therapy for the terminally ill which they are doing in a tightly controlled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganzfeld_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganzfeld_effect environment and of course accompanying people for the whole tip.
  - cmh89 3y ago
    Amsterdam already has a problem with alcohol getting people in trouble. Millions of people take mushrooms every year with no issues. The problem is we have such a high bar for pyschedelics that isn't applied to other recreational drugs.
  - totallywrong 3y ago
    > put somebody into a strange and sketchy city like Amsterdam and some of them will get into trouble Funny you say that because I couldn't have wished for a better trip than roaming Amsterdam with my friends when I tried mushrooms all those years ago. The canals, the architecture.. it was a fairy tale, I remember it dearly.
    - andelink 3y ago
      Was just about to say this. My shrooms trip in Amsterdam was nothing short of magical. Such a colorful, vibrant city. It was beautiful
    - PaulHoule 3y ago
      I remember getting bitched out for wandering around stoned in Het Vondelpark.
- scruple 3y ago
  > Have you ever done acid? Yes, and a variety of other psychedelics in my early 20s. I remember spending time on erowid and then seeking out substances. Mescaline, peyote, ketamine, psylicobin, acid, GHB, DXM, others I'm forgetting. I wish I had never done any of it.
  - novelwere 3y ago
    Can i ask why?
    - scruple 3y ago
      I had a few bad trips, one being very bad and which changed the direction of my life. It also made me realize that I was doing these things for the wrong reasons (mostly peer pressure, or a desire to fit in with certain crowds, etc.). In retrospect, it just wasn't very fun, and certainly wasn't a useful way (for me) to live my life.
davidguetta 3y ago
Best comment ever. And also true. I do drugs what i feels is responsable (5 times a year) and i always feel im the only one doing it responsibly among people i know who do drugs.
- randomNumber7 3y ago
  > I do drugs what i feels is responsable (5 times a year) One problem is that you can't get honest information about what is responsable, besides the "all drugs are evil" propaganda. Like you can defenitley smoke weed more often and call it responsable, but for MDMA 5 times is already quite at the edge imo. And people don't realize that easily.
  - davidguetta 3y ago
    > for MDMA 5 times is already quite at the edge imo Indeed, but I was speaking of 5 times like 1 LSD 1 mushroom, 1 coke and 1 mdma a year or something, with extremely cautious dosing.. > you can't get honest information about what is responsable This is really debatable or even not true. There are several website (erowid, r/drugs) with literally thousands of not tens of thousands of reports and experiences of various people, including thoughts on multi-year / multi-decade drug experiences. If you sincerely look for the information there's everything you need
scotty79 3y ago
"I handle cheese responsibly" is a great thing to put on a t-shirt.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  But then I'd be a liar
SamPatt 3y ago
We aren't all average Americans. Individual responsibility should apply here. I don't want my rights restricted because other people are fools. If it's considered acceptable to tell people what they can and cannot put into their bodies because "average" people can't handle it, there's no limiting principle in place to stop our bodies from being controlled by others.
- circlefavshape 3y ago
  It actually is considered acceptable to tell people what they can and cannot put into their bodies. Legal restrictions on medicines and intoxicants are in place all over the world, and that hasn't led to "others" taking control of my body.
  - SamPatt 3y ago
    >Legal restrictions on medicines and intoxicants are in place all over the world, and that hasn't led to "others" taking control of my body. If you say so. I believe prohibition exerts substantial control over our bodies, and also corrodes other aspects of personal freedom (such as the Fourth Amendment in the US).
    - MichaelZuo 3y ago
      Well if you don't believe in any medicine prohibitions, then you'd be arguing against literally every government in the world (except maybe Somalia) plus the UN and hundreds of other IGOs, NGOs, etc...
      - Mordisquitos 3y ago
        Spain for instance does not impose any legal restriction as to what you knowingly choose to put into your own body. Not only is possession of any drug for personal use without an intent to distribute not a criminal offence in Spain, neither is consuming said drugs in the privacy of your own home. There is also no legal restriction on growing cannabis or psychedelic mushrooms on private property outside of public view, as long as the amounts are small enough that there is no reason to suspect an intent to distribute it.
thelastparadise 3y ago
The point of laws isn't to protect people from themselves.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  Ah yes, the government requires I wear a seatbelt because they think it's fun
scrozart 3y ago
Your comment indicates you can't differentiate between LSD and dangerous opioids. Cheese is the opioid supplying immediate gratification. LSD, and other hallucinogens, work much, much differently.
- thr_msc 3y ago
  [flagged]

silveraxe93 3y ago

Have you ever done acid? If you want to reduce drug use, you should legalise LSD and make it easy to buy. Your average American that "can't handle cheese responsibly" will try it once, have a terrible 12h and swear off drugs for life. With no long term health effects from one dose.

BasedAnon 3y ago
>Your average American that "can't handle cheese responsibly" will try it once, have a terrible 12h and swear off drugs for life You severely underestimate how much most people want to escape their lives, even if the experience is negative. It's silly to act like people don't self-harm.
- silveraxe93 3y ago
  If they want to escape their lives they'll just become an alcoholic. I'm not denying that people will self-harm. But the argument that people will self-harm with LSD needs to ignore that there's plenty of better drugs legalised already
  - BasedAnon 3y ago
    Alcohol is much worse than LSD
    - soligern 3y ago
      In a way. It has much worse physical outcomes over the long term especially if you’re drinking humongous amounts. However, alcohol/nicotine etc. don’t change your modality of thought processes or your underlying perspectives on life. Anecdotally from that perspective LSD is way, way more destructive. It can reconstruct you as a shell of the person you were, and very quickly. I’ve seen it happen so many times and anyone arguing the alcohol is worse than LSD is missing the forest for the tree.
      - skyyler 3y ago
        >However, alcohol/nicotine etc. don’t change your modality of thought processes or your underlying perspectives on life. Go to a couple of AA meetings and say that again.
        thr_msc 3y ago
        [flagged]
        soligern 3y ago
        [dead]
- pixl97 3y ago
  >You severely underestimate how much most people want to escape their lives Hey, lets optimize society for human happiness and enjoyment without escapism then... Moloch: "Now just hold the fuck up, I have some corporations to run"
rocketbop 3y ago
Yea for sure. Mushrooms and LSD are not really popular and not drugs drug addicts gravitate towards. I don’t thin legalisation would hugely increase use.
- spoiler 3y ago
  Not to mention that due to tolerance build up, you can't take LSD/psilocybin too often. And also, they don't "make you" wanna take them often either. This might be anecdotal, but even though they can be fun, but they're also very exhausting and make you introspective and also kinda encourage you to think about improving different aspec of your life. Sure, there's some bad trips that make people psychotic, but I think that legalisation and regulations would help protect those peope, rather than harm them, because there's usually an underlying condition that triggers such an episode. On the flip side, I've had bad trips a few times and they usually taught me a lot about myself, the people around me, and how I lived life at the, which in turn pushed me to change for the better, and improve some aspects of my life.
  - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
    >Not to mention that due to tolerance build up, you can't take LSD/psilocybin too often. And also, they don't "make you" wanna take them often either. these arguments never seem to have a separate addictive from non-addictive drugs component.
  - sowbug 3y ago
    Not that I have any data to back up this anecdote, but you don't see people in rehab for tryptamines. But you do for alcohol, coke, heroin, and meth.
Communitivity 3y ago
"no long term health effects from one dose" does not account for the possibility of persistent flashbacks, or for bad trips that can cause lasting psychological trauma. LSD bonds with something in the brain, such that it causes persistent flashbacks more than any other hallucinogen, sometimes years later. Taking it just once to try it might not have any effect, or might cause flashbacks for the rest of your life. Depends on your personal neurochemistry, the dosage, form of dosing, and your mental state. A friend who had taken LSD described it to me once something like this: LSD sometimes takes any cracks (neurosis or psychosis) in your mind and expands them wide open, forcing you to look into them. If you're aware of them already and they're minor, it can be helpful, sometimes expanding your mind to new capabilities. If you've been unaware or worse, in denial, or they're major, then you get a bad trip that may come back to haunt you over and over again over the years. Flashbacks that continue to occur after the original drug effects have worn off are a medically recognized phenomenon, which is documented in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) as hallucinogen persisting perception disorder. Flashbacks typically happen in the days or weeks following ingestion of the drug but can happen months or even years after the drug use has been discontinued.
- silveraxe93 3y ago
  Eh... fine. People won't come out unscathed in literally all cases. However the risk from one dose is minimal. If your risk threshold is so close to 0 then we should be banning way more things today.
- scrozart 3y ago
  I've done LSD numerous times, including "heroic" doses, as have many of my friends, starting 30 years ago (I haven't in a while as i no longer feel the need to blow open those doors). Not one of us has ever had a single flashback, let alone "persistent" flashbacks. If they were ever really an issue, it was long ago with different/absurdly strong formulations.
- GuB-42 3y ago
  I don't believe in the "LSD binds to something in the brain and this causes flashbacks". LSD obviously binds to something in the brain during the trip, like all psychoactive substances, but after that, it is gone. LSD degrades relatively easily, you only get micrograms of it and there are known metabolic pathways. A more convincing theory for flashbacks is that they are similar to PTSD. LSD can give really intense and memorable experiences, and in the case of a bad trip, they can be considered traumatic. Symptoms show similarities too. Essentially, flashbacks are just memories, good or bad, and in the worst cases, so bad as to haunt you for years. Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) is not like flashbacks. As the name suggests, it affects perception, i.e. senses, commonly in the form of visual noise, distinct from what is experienced during a trip. Think something like tinnitus. We know it exists, but the details are unclear.
PaulHoule 3y ago
The Netherlands has struggled to commercialize a safe psychedelic. LSD is not so dangerous per se if you are in good hands. It does leave you discombobulated for 12 hours or so and put somebody into a strange and sketchy city like Amsterdam and some of them will get into trouble. Mushrooms are a little better because the duration is shorter but they still didn't find the problems acceptable. They tried the stimulating and hallucinatory 2C-T2 which is somehow entirely non-cosmic but I think even that failed market testing. After all these years a pastor I know is providing psilocybin therapy for the terminally ill which they are doing in a tightly controlled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganzfeld_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganzfeld_effect environment and of course accompanying people for the whole tip.
- cmh89 3y ago
  Amsterdam already has a problem with alcohol getting people in trouble. Millions of people take mushrooms every year with no issues. The problem is we have such a high bar for pyschedelics that isn't applied to other recreational drugs.
- totallywrong 3y ago
  > put somebody into a strange and sketchy city like Amsterdam and some of them will get into trouble Funny you say that because I couldn't have wished for a better trip than roaming Amsterdam with my friends when I tried mushrooms all those years ago. The canals, the architecture.. it was a fairy tale, I remember it dearly.
  - andelink 3y ago
    Was just about to say this. My shrooms trip in Amsterdam was nothing short of magical. Such a colorful, vibrant city. It was beautiful
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    I remember getting bitched out for wandering around stoned in Het Vondelpark.
scruple 3y ago
> Have you ever done acid? Yes, and a variety of other psychedelics in my early 20s. I remember spending time on erowid and then seeking out substances. Mescaline, peyote, ketamine, psylicobin, acid, GHB, DXM, others I'm forgetting. I wish I had never done any of it.
- novelwere 3y ago
  Can i ask why?
  - scruple 3y ago
    I had a few bad trips, one being very bad and which changed the direction of my life. It also made me realize that I was doing these things for the wrong reasons (mostly peer pressure, or a desire to fit in with certain crowds, etc.). In retrospect, it just wasn't very fun, and certainly wasn't a useful way (for me) to live my life.

davidguetta 3y ago

Best comment ever. And also true. I do drugs what i feels is responsable (5 times a year) and i always feel im the only one doing it responsibly among people i know who do drugs.

randomNumber7 3y ago
> I do drugs what i feels is responsable (5 times a year) One problem is that you can't get honest information about what is responsable, besides the "all drugs are evil" propaganda. Like you can defenitley smoke weed more often and call it responsable, but for MDMA 5 times is already quite at the edge imo. And people don't realize that easily.
- davidguetta 3y ago
  > for MDMA 5 times is already quite at the edge imo Indeed, but I was speaking of 5 times like 1 LSD 1 mushroom, 1 coke and 1 mdma a year or something, with extremely cautious dosing.. > you can't get honest information about what is responsable This is really debatable or even not true. There are several website (erowid, r/drugs) with literally thousands of not tens of thousands of reports and experiences of various people, including thoughts on multi-year / multi-decade drug experiences. If you sincerely look for the information there's everything you need

scotty79 3y ago

"I handle cheese responsibly" is a great thing to put on a t-shirt.

mrguyorama 3y ago
But then I'd be a liar

SamPatt 3y ago

We aren't all average Americans. Individual responsibility should apply here. I don't want my rights restricted because other people are fools. If it's considered acceptable to tell people what they can and cannot put into their bodies because "average" people can't handle it, there's no limiting principle in place to stop our bodies from being controlled by others.

circlefavshape 3y ago
It actually is considered acceptable to tell people what they can and cannot put into their bodies. Legal restrictions on medicines and intoxicants are in place all over the world, and that hasn't led to "others" taking control of my body.
- SamPatt 3y ago
  >Legal restrictions on medicines and intoxicants are in place all over the world, and that hasn't led to "others" taking control of my body. If you say so. I believe prohibition exerts substantial control over our bodies, and also corrodes other aspects of personal freedom (such as the Fourth Amendment in the US).
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    Well if you don't believe in any medicine prohibitions, then you'd be arguing against literally every government in the world (except maybe Somalia) plus the UN and hundreds of other IGOs, NGOs, etc...
    - Mordisquitos 3y ago
      Spain for instance does not impose any legal restriction as to what you knowingly choose to put into your own body. Not only is possession of any drug for personal use without an intent to distribute not a criminal offence in Spain, neither is consuming said drugs in the privacy of your own home. There is also no legal restriction on growing cannabis or psychedelic mushrooms on private property outside of public view, as long as the amounts are small enough that there is no reason to suspect an intent to distribute it.

thelastparadise 3y ago

The point of laws isn't to protect people from themselves.

mrguyorama 3y ago
Ah yes, the government requires I wear a seatbelt because they think it's fun

scrozart 3y ago

Your comment indicates you can't differentiate between LSD and dangerous opioids. Cheese is the opioid supplying immediate gratification. LSD, and other hallucinogens, work much, much differently.

thr_msc 3y ago
[flagged]