4 ms·

> As others have mentioned, context matters a lot. No, it does not. While this group is indeed suspicious, detaining them without a proof (and using whatsapp a

by csomar 3y ago

> As others have mentioned, context matters a lot. No, it does not. While this group is indeed suspicious, detaining them without a proof (and using whatsapp as your proof) opens a serious precedent. Now anyone can be detain for that. And it'll be used for serious suspicious cases later but also will be used against someone like you because someone in the police didn't like how you walk.

627467 3y ago
How does "police didn't like how you walk" is similar to "demonstrably returned radicalized from a ongoing warzone"?
- pjerem 3y ago
  Because they have not been arrested officially because they returned from a war zone (it’s suspicious but not illegal) but because they used cryptography.
lloeki 3y ago
> opens a serious precedent Of note for US readers, France legal system is not a jurisprudential system as in the US. That is, a judge's ruling does not become law - i.e must be followed as law by another judge -, only parliament can make law. The only instance having a form of jurisprudence power is Cour de Cassation, but that's only indirect: being the ultimate instance of recourse CCass rulings for similar cases have high chances of having similar outcomes. They may (or may not) influence other court rulings but a) they are not law and b) reaching to CCass is not guaranteed, so other courts judges are completely free to rule differently (as long as they abide by law) That said, holistically these precedents matter as they may give broad strokes on mindset trends from the powers at play.
- junon 3y ago
  That's interesting. So even if the judge knows their ruling could be the worst of several options, they're boxed into doing so because it's the law?
  - starttoaster 3y ago
    Not really, that description, and the one provided by the user you responded to is a bit disingenuous. Judges have the option of going against prior rulings all the time, and they do it all the time. But it does usually require some context from the judge for why a different ruling was carried out in this instance, because if they’re basically saying the previous judge’s decision was wrong, that calls into question if that prior case actually found real justice. Additionally, only higher courts (not just small local ones) set precedents for their rulings.
  - progbits 3y ago
    Judges are not there to come up with the law, only to execute it.
    - charonn0 3y ago
      In the USA at least, it's the executive that executes laws. Judges interpret them.
    - junon 3y ago
      That's not what I asked, nor is it what I implied.
      - School-Cotton 3y ago
        It’s not clear what exactly you were asking or how it relates to the post you were replying to.
  - JW_00000 3y ago
    Isn't that always the case when you have rule of law and separation of powers? The legislative body comes up with the law; judges just apply it. E.g. if the law says "murder carries a penalty of minimum 5 years and maximum 30 years imprisonment", then a judge cannot give a sentence of 4 year or of 40 years, even if they personally believe this to be a "better" sentence.
    - 3y ago
lm28469 3y ago
Fighting for a foreign nation and/or mercenaries is illegal in itself
- kachnuv_ocasek 3y ago
  Some countries made an exception for Ukraine…
  - relativ575 3y ago
    Such as? It is legal for Americans to fight for another country, unless it's against the US. In fact the US government said they can't intervene if one is forced to do compulsory military service abroad. It gets complicated fast: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Loss-US-Nationality-and-Foreign-Military-Service.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-lega...
- wott 3y ago
  > Fighting for a foreign nation and/or mercenaries is illegal in itself Nope. It depends on countries (and mood of the year). Some countries allow to become mercenaries and forbid voluntary fighting for a foreign nation. Some countries allow to voluntary fight for a foreign nation and forbid to become mercenaries. And so on. France even has the French Foreign Legion...
  - lm28469 3y ago
    > France even has the French Foreign Legion... Which is... the complete opposite of fighting for a foreign nation since it's part of the French army. You can allow foreigners in your army while at the same time making it illegal for your own citizen to join foreign mercenaries

by csomar 3y ago

627467 3y ago

How does "police didn't like how you walk" is similar to "demonstrably returned radicalized from a ongoing warzone"?

pjerem 3y ago
Because they have not been arrested officially because they returned from a war zone (it’s suspicious but not illegal) but because they used cryptography.

lloeki 3y ago

> opens a serious precedent Of note for US readers, France legal system is not a jurisprudential system as in the US. That is, a judge's ruling does not become law - i.e must be followed as law by another judge -, only parliament can make law. The only instance having a form of jurisprudence power is Cour de Cassation, but that's only indirect: being the ultimate instance of recourse CCass rulings for similar cases have high chances of having similar outcomes. They may (or may not) influence other court rulings but a) they are not law and b) reaching to CCass is not guaranteed, so other courts judges are completely free to rule differently (as long as they abide by law) That said, holistically these precedents matter as they may give broad strokes on mindset trends from the powers at play.

junon 3y ago
That's interesting. So even if the judge knows their ruling could be the worst of several options, they're boxed into doing so because it's the law?
- starttoaster 3y ago
  Not really, that description, and the one provided by the user you responded to is a bit disingenuous. Judges have the option of going against prior rulings all the time, and they do it all the time. But it does usually require some context from the judge for why a different ruling was carried out in this instance, because if they’re basically saying the previous judge’s decision was wrong, that calls into question if that prior case actually found real justice. Additionally, only higher courts (not just small local ones) set precedents for their rulings.
- progbits 3y ago
  Judges are not there to come up with the law, only to execute it.
  - charonn0 3y ago
    In the USA at least, it's the executive that executes laws. Judges interpret them.
  - junon 3y ago
    That's not what I asked, nor is it what I implied.
    - School-Cotton 3y ago
      It’s not clear what exactly you were asking or how it relates to the post you were replying to.
- JW_00000 3y ago
  Isn't that always the case when you have rule of law and separation of powers? The legislative body comes up with the law; judges just apply it. E.g. if the law says "murder carries a penalty of minimum 5 years and maximum 30 years imprisonment", then a judge cannot give a sentence of 4 year or of 40 years, even if they personally believe this to be a "better" sentence.
  - 3y ago

lm28469 3y ago

Fighting for a foreign nation and/or mercenaries is illegal in itself

kachnuv_ocasek 3y ago
Some countries made an exception for Ukraine…
- relativ575 3y ago
  Such as? It is legal for Americans to fight for another country, unless it's against the US. In fact the US government said they can't intervene if one is forced to do compulsory military service abroad. It gets complicated fast: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Loss-US-Nationality-and-Foreign-Military-Service.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-lega...
wott 3y ago
> Fighting for a foreign nation and/or mercenaries is illegal in itself Nope. It depends on countries (and mood of the year). Some countries allow to become mercenaries and forbid voluntary fighting for a foreign nation. Some countries allow to voluntary fight for a foreign nation and forbid to become mercenaries. And so on. France even has the French Foreign Legion...
- lm28469 3y ago
  > France even has the French Foreign Legion... Which is... the complete opposite of fighting for a foreign nation since it's part of the French army. You can allow foreigners in your army while at the same time making it illegal for your own citizen to join foreign mercenaries