6 ms·

The problem here is we are required by law to pay taxes for schools, and the people running the schools have almost zero accountability on anything. In our tin

The problem here is we are required by law to pay taxes for schools, and the people running the schools have almost zero accountability on anything. In our tiny regional district, the yearly school budget is $25 million a year, for less than a thousand students. Our combined municipal budgets, by comparison, are about $6 million. For that $25 million a year, we are forced to pay, we get crap teachers and kids who can’t read or do math. We are now in private school, for a total of $25,000 a year we pay ourselves, and we still have to pay the school taxes too. It is absolutely outrageous.

mensetmanusman 3y ago
Public schools have less accountability than private schools. Because the one local government is the customer for public schools, and the student is the customer for private schools. Parents have more micro accountability actions than governments.
singleshot_ 3y ago
You know what’s truly amazing is that in some states, a person like me (no kids) pays taxes into your kid’s private school. If it seems nuts that you have to pay twice to get one quality service, imagine how I feel about paying once for a kid to go to religious school. Agreed on the outrageous part, though!
- Solvency 3y ago
  Not all private schools are religious schools.
  - singleshot_ 3y ago
    Correct. I'm not sure I have a huge problem with non-religious schools, but on the other hand I'm not really sure to whom they're accountable or how they spend that money. I am not completely sold.
    - simfree 3y ago
      Charter Schools seem to often have trouble maintaining financially viable operations, let alone outcompeting other schools despite being able to pick and choose what students they accept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_htSPGAY7I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_htSPGAY7I It's been messy to watch this play out in Portland, the quality of education delivered is not consistent and each charter school (or chain) is on its own to reinvent the wheel (and waste resources doing so) on common infrastructure many districts would otherwise share.
      - Scubabear68 3y ago
        The myth of common infrastructure is a common theme in schools. Our own district “regionalized” across three towns to get those infrastructure savings. They were non-existent. The reality, in NJ at least, is that a school’s budget will balloon to the maximum size legally allowed, and expand from there forever. On occasions when stupid BOE’s back themselves into a corner, they rook the residents into a referendum to get a zillion dollar bond. The common theme in public schools is: mandatory funding via taxation, and no accountability at all.
        simfree 3y ago
        That is not true when your looking at IT infrastructure, connecting to the state K-12 network, qualifying for connectivity grants, etc. The cost to do this for an individual school is much greater than spreading these primarily fixed over many schools.
        Scubabear68 3y ago
        I am not sure what a “state k-12 network” is. I don’t think such a thing exists in NJ. I have looked at our budgets, IT is almost a rounding error out of the $25 million/year. Most of the “synergy” of combining schools is supposed to come out of reduced administrative personnel. Except that never happen. Quite the opposite - administration swells and the combined regional district ends up costing more.
      - 3y ago
- jaredklewis 3y ago
  Well, unfortunate that the school is religious, but I wouldn’t say that a childless person paying for school is “outrageous.” After all, most people grow old, retire, and become dependent on the young workers in the economy to carry the tax burden, defend the nation, serve as doctors, nurses, caretakers, and so on. It takes a village to raise a child, but it also takes children to have a village at all. So I don’t think it’s crazy if we spread the cost of education not just among parents but across the whole population.
  - singleshot_ 3y ago
    One other point that may be worth making is that if the kids I rely on to take care of me when I am old are very religious, they will probably not take care of me, which gives me a vested interest in the undertaking of teaching the next generations not to hate me because I don’t share their beliefs.
  - lukas099 3y ago
    The point was that the taxes are going to private schools, not schools in general.
  - singleshot_ 3y ago
    I wouldn't say that a childless person paying for school is "outrageous" either. If I said that, would I be entitled to a doctor when I'm old? The better we educate these little people the better the future will be. Letting people take this money that we set aside to invest in the future seems unwise.
- realjhol 3y ago
  You will depend on today's children to uphold society and care for you in your old age, so asking you to contribute to their education is perfectly reasonable
  - roller45 3y ago
    not necessarily true. I'm an antinatalist planning to kill myself once I get too old to take care of myself on my own. There are many people who are childless because they believe that making children to take care of our selfish needs is horribly wrong.
    - mensetmanusman 3y ago
      You will require children to push you off the building when you want to die though.
    - angelbar 3y ago
      There will be people managing your deceased body.... and remaining posessions.
  - johngladtj 3y ago
    How about we fix that problem instead by eliminating the Ponzi scheme that is social security?
    - _aavaa_ 3y ago
      Older generations depend on the young for everything not just social security.
- alphanullmeric 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 3y ago
    Could you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly, and we're trying to avoid that here. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
    - alphanullmeric 3y ago
      My comment was on topic and directly addressed the argument without any personal attacks. What is the issue here?
      - dang 3y ago
        The key word is "repeatedly" - the issue isn't just one comment, it's that your account has a pattern of commenting in the flamewar style, which I suppose could be described as the popular internet commenting style that combines snark, swipes, name-calling, and tropes with indignant, grandiose rhetoric. Your account has been posting a ton of these - here are a few examples I just randomly picked out: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36440168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36440168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36412586 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36412586 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36412073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36412073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36410915 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36410915 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36410488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36410488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36407223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36407223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36398021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36398021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36373896 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36373896 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36363685 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36363685 What we want on HN is thoughtful, substantive, and above all curious conversation. That and the flamewar style are basically disjoint—and what's worse, the one destroys the other, which means we have no choice but to moderate and/or ban accounts that persist in posting that way. I don't want to ban you, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and recalibrate, we'd appreciate it.
sagarm 3y ago
The private school charges you the same amount for one student that the public school has to spend -- but doesn't need to support expensive or difficult cases. How can you then claim that public schools are somehow massively inefficient?
- Scubabear68 3y ago
  Private schools are acutely aware that you are paying them to educate your kid, and have mobility if you are unhappy. The result is higher efficiency. Public schools are effectively a monopoly with a captive audience,and in NJ at least, no true accountability. The result is they spend money on all sorts of crap having little to nothing to do with education.
  - quags 3y ago
    NJ has overall decent schools that are well funded with huge local control in many areas broken up into an insane number of small towns. The kicker is all children need to have a minimum education regardless of cost - so if an educational plan needs multiple teachers following a student cost is no factor and I don’t think that’s a bad thing. The richer towns subsidize some of the poorer towns as well. I think that if a private school were to get any public funds at all they immediately should also be required to at no extra cost to the sender have the same requirements with out being able to get rid of problem children.
morelandjs 3y ago
Is your concern that you pay money to educate other people’s children? What is outrageous about that?

mensetmanusman 3y ago

Public schools have less accountability than private schools. Because the one local government is the customer for public schools, and the student is the customer for private schools. Parents have more micro accountability actions than governments.

singleshot_ 3y ago

You know what’s truly amazing is that in some states, a person like me (no kids) pays taxes into your kid’s private school. If it seems nuts that you have to pay twice to get one quality service, imagine how I feel about paying once for a kid to go to religious school. Agreed on the outrageous part, though!

Solvency 3y ago
Not all private schools are religious schools.
- singleshot_ 3y ago
  Correct. I'm not sure I have a huge problem with non-religious schools, but on the other hand I'm not really sure to whom they're accountable or how they spend that money. I am not completely sold.
  - simfree 3y ago
    Charter Schools seem to often have trouble maintaining financially viable operations, let alone outcompeting other schools despite being able to pick and choose what students they accept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_htSPGAY7I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_htSPGAY7I It's been messy to watch this play out in Portland, the quality of education delivered is not consistent and each charter school (or chain) is on its own to reinvent the wheel (and waste resources doing so) on common infrastructure many districts would otherwise share.
    - Scubabear68 3y ago
      The myth of common infrastructure is a common theme in schools. Our own district “regionalized” across three towns to get those infrastructure savings. They were non-existent. The reality, in NJ at least, is that a school’s budget will balloon to the maximum size legally allowed, and expand from there forever. On occasions when stupid BOE’s back themselves into a corner, they rook the residents into a referendum to get a zillion dollar bond. The common theme in public schools is: mandatory funding via taxation, and no accountability at all.
      - simfree 3y ago
        That is not true when your looking at IT infrastructure, connecting to the state K-12 network, qualifying for connectivity grants, etc. The cost to do this for an individual school is much greater than spreading these primarily fixed over many schools.
        Scubabear68 3y ago
        I am not sure what a “state k-12 network” is. I don’t think such a thing exists in NJ. I have looked at our budgets, IT is almost a rounding error out of the $25 million/year. Most of the “synergy” of combining schools is supposed to come out of reduced administrative personnel. Except that never happen. Quite the opposite - administration swells and the combined regional district ends up costing more.
    - 3y ago
jaredklewis 3y ago
Well, unfortunate that the school is religious, but I wouldn’t say that a childless person paying for school is “outrageous.” After all, most people grow old, retire, and become dependent on the young workers in the economy to carry the tax burden, defend the nation, serve as doctors, nurses, caretakers, and so on. It takes a village to raise a child, but it also takes children to have a village at all. So I don’t think it’s crazy if we spread the cost of education not just among parents but across the whole population.
- singleshot_ 3y ago
  One other point that may be worth making is that if the kids I rely on to take care of me when I am old are very religious, they will probably not take care of me, which gives me a vested interest in the undertaking of teaching the next generations not to hate me because I don’t share their beliefs.
- lukas099 3y ago
  The point was that the taxes are going to private schools, not schools in general.
- singleshot_ 3y ago
  I wouldn't say that a childless person paying for school is "outrageous" either. If I said that, would I be entitled to a doctor when I'm old? The better we educate these little people the better the future will be. Letting people take this money that we set aside to invest in the future seems unwise.
realjhol 3y ago
You will depend on today's children to uphold society and care for you in your old age, so asking you to contribute to their education is perfectly reasonable
- roller45 3y ago
  not necessarily true. I'm an antinatalist planning to kill myself once I get too old to take care of myself on my own. There are many people who are childless because they believe that making children to take care of our selfish needs is horribly wrong.
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    You will require children to push you off the building when you want to die though.
  - angelbar 3y ago
    There will be people managing your deceased body.... and remaining posessions.
- johngladtj 3y ago
  How about we fix that problem instead by eliminating the Ponzi scheme that is social security?
  - _aavaa_ 3y ago
    Older generations depend on the young for everything not just social security.
alphanullmeric 3y ago
[flagged]
- dang 3y ago
  Could you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly, and we're trying to avoid that here. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
  - alphanullmeric 3y ago
    My comment was on topic and directly addressed the argument without any personal attacks. What is the issue here?
    - dang 3y ago
      The key word is "repeatedly" - the issue isn't just one comment, it's that your account has a pattern of commenting in the flamewar style, which I suppose could be described as the popular internet commenting style that combines snark, swipes, name-calling, and tropes with indignant, grandiose rhetoric. Your account has been posting a ton of these - here are a few examples I just randomly picked out: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36440168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36440168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36412586 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36412586 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36412073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36412073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36410915 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36410915 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36410488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36410488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36407223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36407223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36398021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36398021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36373896 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36373896 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36363685 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36363685 What we want on HN is thoughtful, substantive, and above all curious conversation. That and the flamewar style are basically disjoint—and what's worse, the one destroys the other, which means we have no choice but to moderate and/or ban accounts that persist in posting that way. I don't want to ban you, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and recalibrate, we'd appreciate it.

sagarm 3y ago

The private school charges you the same amount for one student that the public school has to spend -- but doesn't need to support expensive or difficult cases. How can you then claim that public schools are somehow massively inefficient?

Scubabear68 3y ago
Private schools are acutely aware that you are paying them to educate your kid, and have mobility if you are unhappy. The result is higher efficiency. Public schools are effectively a monopoly with a captive audience,and in NJ at least, no true accountability. The result is they spend money on all sorts of crap having little to nothing to do with education.
- quags 3y ago
  NJ has overall decent schools that are well funded with huge local control in many areas broken up into an insane number of small towns. The kicker is all children need to have a minimum education regardless of cost - so if an educational plan needs multiple teachers following a student cost is no factor and I don’t think that’s a bad thing. The richer towns subsidize some of the poorer towns as well. I think that if a private school were to get any public funds at all they immediately should also be required to at no extra cost to the sender have the same requirements with out being able to get rid of problem children.

morelandjs 3y ago

Is your concern that you pay money to educate other people’s children? What is outrageous about that?