4 ms·

The irony of synthetic meat is that it often requires FBS - fetal bovine serum, to grow, which is obtained from the blood of fetal calfs found when slaughtering

by mjfl 3y ago

The irony of synthetic meat is that it often requires FBS - fetal bovine serum, to grow, which is obtained from the blood of fetal calfs found when slaughtering pregnant cows.

synetic 3y ago
I’m know nothing about this stuff. Is it within the real of possibility that the technology can advance to the point that no animals die to produce synthetic meat? As it currently stands I imagine that far fewer animals are required to make x pounds of synthetic meat than it does to make x pounds the usual way. Is this correct?
- mjfl 3y ago
  That's the goal, but I'm not sure it is reality at this point.
aendruk 3y ago
The irony of electric vehicles is that they are often charged from non-renewable energy sources. Specifically regarding the two companies approved today, Good Meat is already approved to use serum-free media in Singapore and we can expect the same to happen in the US. [1] Upside Foods has both serum and serum-free processes [2] and is moving toward being 100% serum-free. [3] [1]: https://read.whatever.social/elliotswartz/status/1651566376635756547#m https://read.whatever.social/elliotswartz/status/16515663766... [2]: https://read.whatever.social/elliotswartz/status/1597231290318655488#m https://read.whatever.social/elliotswartz/status/15972312903... [3]: https://upsidefoods.com/progress https://upsidefoods.com/progress
- Tagbert 3y ago
  and even when using fossil fuels as the energy source, EVs are responsible for less CO2 than a gasoline vehicle.
  - jwestbury 3y ago
    I think that was the point here.
isodev 3y ago
It seems the most common method to acquire starter cells is by taking a cell sample from a live animal, which can be performed using minimally invasive methods or by biopsying a recently slaughtered animal where the tissue is still viable - https://gfi.org/science/the-science-of-cultivated-meat/ https://gfi.org/science/the-science-of-cultivated-meat/
- mjfl 3y ago
  the FBS is not the source of the cells, it is a component to the growth medium.
- colinhb 3y ago
  Different issue -- the medium that the cells grow and multiply in has FBS as constituent. Most of the cultured meat companies rely on it, though upstream there are a number of companies working to develop "serum-free" media with the goal of selling into the cultured meat companies. It's also an active area of academic research, since FBS is not a chemically-defined product, it introduces variability into cell-culture protocols. Example: https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-022-03423-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-022-03423-8
jjtheblunt 3y ago
do you have a link explaining that? i've never seen that but may have missed it
- aendruk 3y ago
  Originally employed in the late 1950s, fetal bovine serum (FBS) has become a mainstay in biomedical research because it can supplement the growth of virtually all common human, animal, and even insect cell lines. As an added supplement for many cell culture applications in amounts typically 5-20% of total medium volume, FBS—when used—is often the most expensive part of performing cell culture. Despite its long history of use, FBS has several well-described issues that have made its replacement a priority in recent years. First, inherent variability and undefined nature of FBS use leads to compounding external costs in quality control. Second, FBS is a potential source of contamination. Third, there is a limited global supply of FBS. Lastly, the use of FBS carries ethical concerns, making its use inherently misaligned with one of the fundamental benefits of cultivated meat. A wide range of efforts to replace serum have been tried and accomplished and many of these replacements are used today, permitting serum-free cell culture for a variety of applications. However, serum-free formulations will need to be further optimized specifically for cultivated meat. https://gfi.org/science/the-science-of-cultivated-meat/deep-dive-cultivated-meat-cell-culture-media/ https://gfi.org/science/the-science-of-cultivated-meat/deep-...
  - jjtheblunt 3y ago
    thanks
mjamesaustin 3y ago
I don't find it ironic that to cultivate animal cells you would need to start with some animal cells. I would think that's expected actually. What's nice is that the tissue sample taken from one chicken can be cultivated for years and make a huge amount of meat. Think of it like a sourdough starter that continues to produce more bread as long as you feed it appropriately.
- candiddevmike 3y ago
  > Think of it like a sourdough starter that continues to produce more bread as long as you feed it appropriately. As someone who has a sourdough starter in the fridge, thanks for that imagery.
- mjfl 3y ago
  the FBS is not the source of the cells, it is a component to the growth medium.

by mjfl 3y ago

The irony of synthetic meat is that it often requires FBS - fetal bovine serum, to grow, which is obtained from the blood of fetal calfs found when slaughtering pregnant cows.

synetic 3y ago

I’m know nothing about this stuff. Is it within the real of possibility that the technology can advance to the point that no animals die to produce synthetic meat? As it currently stands I imagine that far fewer animals are required to make x pounds of synthetic meat than it does to make x pounds the usual way. Is this correct?

mjfl 3y ago
That's the goal, but I'm not sure it is reality at this point.

aendruk 3y ago

The irony of electric vehicles is that they are often charged from non-renewable energy sources. Specifically regarding the two companies approved today, Good Meat is already approved to use serum-free media in Singapore and we can expect the same to happen in the US. [1] Upside Foods has both serum and serum-free processes [2] and is moving toward being 100% serum-free. [3] [1]: https://read.whatever.social/elliotswartz/status/1651566376635756547#m https://read.whatever.social/elliotswartz/status/16515663766... [2]: https://read.whatever.social/elliotswartz/status/1597231290318655488#m https://read.whatever.social/elliotswartz/status/15972312903... [3]: https://upsidefoods.com/progress https://upsidefoods.com/progress

Tagbert 3y ago
and even when using fossil fuels as the energy source, EVs are responsible for less CO2 than a gasoline vehicle.
- jwestbury 3y ago
  I think that was the point here.

isodev 3y ago

It seems the most common method to acquire starter cells is by taking a cell sample from a live animal, which can be performed using minimally invasive methods or by biopsying a recently slaughtered animal where the tissue is still viable - https://gfi.org/science/the-science-of-cultivated-meat/ https://gfi.org/science/the-science-of-cultivated-meat/

mjfl 3y ago
the FBS is not the source of the cells, it is a component to the growth medium.
colinhb 3y ago
Different issue -- the medium that the cells grow and multiply in has FBS as constituent. Most of the cultured meat companies rely on it, though upstream there are a number of companies working to develop "serum-free" media with the goal of selling into the cultured meat companies. It's also an active area of academic research, since FBS is not a chemically-defined product, it introduces variability into cell-culture protocols. Example: https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-022-03423-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-022-03423-8

jjtheblunt 3y ago

do you have a link explaining that? i've never seen that but may have missed it

aendruk 3y ago
Originally employed in the late 1950s, fetal bovine serum (FBS) has become a mainstay in biomedical research because it can supplement the growth of virtually all common human, animal, and even insect cell lines. As an added supplement for many cell culture applications in amounts typically 5-20% of total medium volume, FBS—when used—is often the most expensive part of performing cell culture. Despite its long history of use, FBS has several well-described issues that have made its replacement a priority in recent years. First, inherent variability and undefined nature of FBS use leads to compounding external costs in quality control. Second, FBS is a potential source of contamination. Third, there is a limited global supply of FBS. Lastly, the use of FBS carries ethical concerns, making its use inherently misaligned with one of the fundamental benefits of cultivated meat. A wide range of efforts to replace serum have been tried and accomplished and many of these replacements are used today, permitting serum-free cell culture for a variety of applications. However, serum-free formulations will need to be further optimized specifically for cultivated meat. https://gfi.org/science/the-science-of-cultivated-meat/deep-dive-cultivated-meat-cell-culture-media/ https://gfi.org/science/the-science-of-cultivated-meat/deep-...
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  thanks

mjamesaustin 3y ago

I don't find it ironic that to cultivate animal cells you would need to start with some animal cells. I would think that's expected actually. What's nice is that the tissue sample taken from one chicken can be cultivated for years and make a huge amount of meat. Think of it like a sourdough starter that continues to produce more bread as long as you feed it appropriately.

candiddevmike 3y ago
> Think of it like a sourdough starter that continues to produce more bread as long as you feed it appropriately. As someone who has a sourdough starter in the fridge, thanks for that imagery.
mjfl 3y ago
the FBS is not the source of the cells, it is a component to the growth medium.