3 ms·

Not the case here at all. While mining is important to the overall GDP in the country, the major cause here is 99% due to corruption and underinvestment in infr

Not the case here at all. While mining is important to the overall GDP in the country, the major cause here is 99% due to corruption and underinvestment in infrastructure.

solarmist 3y ago
I think the implication is that was sustained by the cash from mining. Now that cash is less flush you can’t have corruption and a working government. It is obvious which was more important to them now.
atonse 3y ago
The problem with corruption is that it gets worse in a situation like this. When there's scarcity of money and opportunity (often caused by corruption), people get even more corrupted to make sure they take care of themselves before anyone else. Which makes things even worse. How does one even break out of that cycle? Who is the first one to say "I'll give up my corrupt riches so everyone can have a more functioning society?"
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  For everyone’s reference, SA gold production peaked in 1970 and was down 80% by 2010. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/S_Africa_Gold_Production.png/1280px-S_Africa_Gold_Production.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/S_...
  - lgleason 3y ago
    South Africa has a lot of other valuable resources beyond gold. For example, coal, iron etc..
lgleason 3y ago
Exactly, I'll also add failed social policies to this list. The economy of Johannesburg goes well beyond gold. The country has amazing natural resources and some very smart people, but sadly the smart ones are in the minority. My brother in law does land evaluations nation-wide. One of many examples he gave me was that there is a program there to expropriate farms from white land owners and give them to blacks (I'm not referring to the expropriation without compensation FYI). The idea behind this was to give the blacks a way to earn money by being able to have land. He personally observed farms that had been expropriated and it's effect. Before the expropriation they were productive thriving operations, afterwords many ended up ceasing to produce anything and the properties went into dis-repair. Farms, beyond supplying the country with food provide a valuable export.
- JoeAltmaier 3y ago
  Similar story in Venezuela. It's a political idea to 'give the land back to the people'. But the people they give it to haven't the training, equipment nor financial reserves to actually work the land. Big farms have become big, to compete on margins. Splitting them is a recipe for disaster. No surprise when it goes sour, quickly and decisively.
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
See "The Resource Curse" in Economics which predicts that when mining and other extractive industries are important to a countries GDP it will heavily predispose a country to "corruption and underinvestment in infrastructure". https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0301420713000755 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03014... > It is found that South Africa has experienced many of the symptoms outlined in the resource curse literature including relatively slow GDP growth, gross inequalities, entrenched poverty and the creation of a rentier state. Overall, it is concluded that South Africa has failed to benefit from natural resource wealth and can be classified as a resource cursed state. Not only has mineral wealth failed to benefit much of South Africa's population, sections of society have actually been harmed through the process of mineral extraction

Not the case here at all. While mining is important to the overall GDP in the country, the major cause here is 99% due to corruption and underinvestment in infrastructure.

solarmist 3y ago

I think the implication is that was sustained by the cash from mining. Now that cash is less flush you can’t have corruption and a working government. It is obvious which was more important to them now.

atonse 3y ago

The problem with corruption is that it gets worse in a situation like this. When there's scarcity of money and opportunity (often caused by corruption), people get even more corrupted to make sure they take care of themselves before anyone else. Which makes things even worse. How does one even break out of that cycle? Who is the first one to say "I'll give up my corrupt riches so everyone can have a more functioning society?"

Scoundreller 3y ago
For everyone’s reference, SA gold production peaked in 1970 and was down 80% by 2010. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/S_Africa_Gold_Production.png/1280px-S_Africa_Gold_Production.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/S_...
- lgleason 3y ago
  South Africa has a lot of other valuable resources beyond gold. For example, coal, iron etc..

lgleason 3y ago

Exactly, I'll also add failed social policies to this list. The economy of Johannesburg goes well beyond gold. The country has amazing natural resources and some very smart people, but sadly the smart ones are in the minority. My brother in law does land evaluations nation-wide. One of many examples he gave me was that there is a program there to expropriate farms from white land owners and give them to blacks (I'm not referring to the expropriation without compensation FYI). The idea behind this was to give the blacks a way to earn money by being able to have land. He personally observed farms that had been expropriated and it's effect. Before the expropriation they were productive thriving operations, afterwords many ended up ceasing to produce anything and the properties went into dis-repair. Farms, beyond supplying the country with food provide a valuable export.

JoeAltmaier 3y ago
Similar story in Venezuela. It's a political idea to 'give the land back to the people'. But the people they give it to haven't the training, equipment nor financial reserves to actually work the land. Big farms have become big, to compete on margins. Splitting them is a recipe for disaster. No surprise when it goes sour, quickly and decisively.

ZeroGravitas 3y ago

See "The Resource Curse" in Economics which predicts that when mining and other extractive industries are important to a countries GDP it will heavily predispose a country to "corruption and underinvestment in infrastructure". https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0301420713000755 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03014... > It is found that South Africa has experienced many of the symptoms outlined in the resource curse literature including relatively slow GDP growth, gross inequalities, entrenched poverty and the creation of a rentier state. Overall, it is concluded that South Africa has failed to benefit from natural resource wealth and can be classified as a resource cursed state. Not only has mineral wealth failed to benefit much of South Africa's population, sections of society have actually been harmed through the process of mineral extraction