3 ms·

But wouldn't the precedent be "Apple won, unions lost"? No one would look at this and go "damn the union really handed Apple a can of whoop ass!"

smoldesu 3y ago
The precedent is that the NLRB has issued a warning past this point. Apple can respond however they want, but this is their shot across the bow.
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  But to my knowledge an NLRB warning is no effect. It isn't like after the 3rd warning, Apple enters Chapter 7 bankruptcy automatically. If I was Apple's legal counsel, I'd be telling them we won this round.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    You don't win any fight that ends in a concession. Apple was instructed to cease-and-desist; if they continue along their current path, they could be held liable for violating federal labor laws. Their legal council is probably doing the same thing they did with the Uighur labor allegations and the Foxconn suicides - begging Apple to denounce it publicly and blame each instance rather than admit systemic abuse. It's pretty much all Apple knows at this point.
    - sidewndr46 3y ago
      Issuing a cease and desist letter to a serial union buster is like telling Ted Bundy he needs to stop killing people. He probably agrees, but certainly isn't going to stop.
      - smoldesu 3y ago
        Ted Bundy's story ends with him dying in government custody, so I'd agree that it's an apt metaphor.
beepbooptheory 3y ago
Maybe, but Apple is the only one that really needs to worry about PR anyway. Workers just need to know what they want. In terms of like broader cultural perception/what you see on the news, its a lost cause for workers anyway. But I don't see it as a problem long term: if you are doing something that makes the bosses angry and maybe incites certain PR efforts to, e.g., make it look like Apple "won" despite an overall hopeful, or at least nuanced, outcome, then it sounds like you are doing something right. Workers in general really have nothing to lose in terms of public perception. Consider all the discourse around tipping. Or consider what people say on this very site in some threads about worker rights. In general, people implicitly or explicitly feel that if you are striking/in a union/living on tips/etc, you have already lost some game and are a sore loser for wanting more. And if you pay attention to the news, this general idea is regularly enforced. This is all especially true in the US, not to mention tech-adjacent sectors. But again, not really a problem per se, just a certain kind of indicator.

smoldesu 3y ago

The precedent is that the NLRB has issued a warning past this point. Apple can respond however they want, but this is their shot across the bow.

sidewndr46 3y ago
But to my knowledge an NLRB warning is no effect. It isn't like after the 3rd warning, Apple enters Chapter 7 bankruptcy automatically. If I was Apple's legal counsel, I'd be telling them we won this round.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  You don't win any fight that ends in a concession. Apple was instructed to cease-and-desist; if they continue along their current path, they could be held liable for violating federal labor laws. Their legal council is probably doing the same thing they did with the Uighur labor allegations and the Foxconn suicides - begging Apple to denounce it publicly and blame each instance rather than admit systemic abuse. It's pretty much all Apple knows at this point.
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    Issuing a cease and desist letter to a serial union buster is like telling Ted Bundy he needs to stop killing people. He probably agrees, but certainly isn't going to stop.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      Ted Bundy's story ends with him dying in government custody, so I'd agree that it's an apt metaphor.

beepbooptheory 3y ago

Maybe, but Apple is the only one that really needs to worry about PR anyway. Workers just need to know what they want. In terms of like broader cultural perception/what you see on the news, its a lost cause for workers anyway. But I don't see it as a problem long term: if you are doing something that makes the bosses angry and maybe incites certain PR efforts to, e.g., make it look like Apple "won" despite an overall hopeful, or at least nuanced, outcome, then it sounds like you are doing something right. Workers in general really have nothing to lose in terms of public perception. Consider all the discourse around tipping. Or consider what people say on this very site in some threads about worker rights. In general, people implicitly or explicitly feel that if you are striking/in a union/living on tips/etc, you have already lost some game and are a sore loser for wanting more. And if you pay attention to the news, this general idea is regularly enforced. This is all especially true in the US, not to mention tech-adjacent sectors. But again, not really a problem per se, just a certain kind of indicator.