10 ms·

"They're a key part in making Apple one of the most valuable companies in the world." ...

by JimtheCoder 3y ago

0x5345414e 3y ago
Yeah I’m not sure I agree with that statement either…
- notwhereyouare 3y ago
  let go all of the employees that work for apple an see how long they are still in business. Don't think the CEO is making their iphones on the line
  - JimtheCoder 3y ago
    "Don't think the CEO is making their iphones on the line" Neither are the people unionizing here...
  - Kiro 3y ago
    We're talking about Apple Stores, not Apple in general. I'm sure Apple would be fine if they closed all stores.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      The stores are a pretty critical component in their sales, marketing, and support cycles, and generally considered a big part of their current success.
      - Kiro 3y ago
        I don't think so. Apple Stores are mostly a US thing.
        mcpackieh 3y ago
        Even in urban areas of America, Apple Stores are often far away in inconvenient locations. Look at the map of Apple Stores in Seattle; it's a pain in the ass to get to one without a car.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        That's Apple's largest market, with 40% of sales. They have stores in 26 countries.
        Timon3 3y ago
        More than half the people I know with Apple devices go to Apple stores for purchase & servicing. I'm from Germany.
      - EA-3167 3y ago
        The stores sure, but the individual retail workers definitely aren't, and are probably fairly replaceable.
  - randomdata 3y ago
    > Don't think the CEO is making their iphones on the line I didn't realize that anyone at Apple was making iPhones on the line. Last I heard it was primarily Foxconn, along with a few other companies. When did Apple get involved in the manufacture of them?
    - jjtheblunt 3y ago
      It’s actually mostly robots but (to your point) with humans at various stages.
  - Aunche 3y ago
    This is a meaningless hypothetical because in no world is a highly successful company ever going to let go of all their workers. On the other hand, one can imagine in a less capital friendly world, nobody would partake in Apples 1996 junk bond offering that rescued them from bankruptcy. It's counterintuitive that a stupid investor who yolo'd their money could have a bigger impact than intelligent and hardworking workers, but that's exactly what happened. Without investment, these workers wouldn't be able to realize the potential that they had at Apple.
nonethewiser 3y ago
Virtually all companies oppose unionization. Am I to believe that all these companies are doing so out of sheer incompetence?
- sequoia 3y ago
  No, it is in the best interest of companies extract as much labour value from workers for as little expenditure of payroll as possible. This is not in the best interest of the workers, however. The interests of the workers and those of the employer diverge on this point and both are working, rationally, for opposing goals. If you’re in a fight and you have a weapon but your opponent is unarmed, of course you would oppose your opponent being given a weapon as that’s not in your best interest. Your opponent may see things differently, just as the employer and employees see things differently in this situation. Apple's opponent is currently unarmed, and Apple doesn't want to see them armed with the weapon of collective bargaining.
- pierat 3y ago
  These companies need to remember that NLRB and unionization was an agreement to take harsh violence off the table. In the old days, when First International and IWW was created, unionization efforts were to "set the bosses house on fire, with them in it", "pass out rifles to all workers and shoot up the bosses house", assaults, bombs.. you name it. That's also where we have the paramilitary force, Pinkertons. They were hired by the bosses to do the same thing to the union organizers. These companies have NO problem violating the meager federal law protections for workers. And to boot, there's basically no penalties. When things get bad enough, just watch for the "whoopsies", subvert sabotage, and direct violence against bosses and against property. Companies have forgotten about the older pact with unions to remove violence, and then now commit economic violence (destitution, starvation, etc). Maybe they should be reminded?
  - JimtheCoder 3y ago
    "and then now commit economic violence (destitution, starvation, etc)." This is a new one. Thanks for sharing...
  - 3y ago
pxc 3y ago
workers: *produce all the value* owners: think you can negotiate? get fucked, workers! noble bystander: hey, these workers are a key part of the value creation equation here!!

"They're a key part in making Apple one of the most valuable companies in the world." ...

0x5345414e 3y ago

Yeah I’m not sure I agree with that statement either…

notwhereyouare 3y ago
let go all of the employees that work for apple an see how long they are still in business. Don't think the CEO is making their iphones on the line
- JimtheCoder 3y ago
  "Don't think the CEO is making their iphones on the line" Neither are the people unionizing here...
- Kiro 3y ago
  We're talking about Apple Stores, not Apple in general. I'm sure Apple would be fine if they closed all stores.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    The stores are a pretty critical component in their sales, marketing, and support cycles, and generally considered a big part of their current success.
    - Kiro 3y ago
      I don't think so. Apple Stores are mostly a US thing.
      - mcpackieh 3y ago
        Even in urban areas of America, Apple Stores are often far away in inconvenient locations. Look at the map of Apple Stores in Seattle; it's a pain in the ass to get to one without a car.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        That's Apple's largest market, with 40% of sales. They have stores in 26 countries.
      - Timon3 3y ago
        More than half the people I know with Apple devices go to Apple stores for purchase & servicing. I'm from Germany.
    - EA-3167 3y ago
      The stores sure, but the individual retail workers definitely aren't, and are probably fairly replaceable.
- randomdata 3y ago
  > Don't think the CEO is making their iphones on the line I didn't realize that anyone at Apple was making iPhones on the line. Last I heard it was primarily Foxconn, along with a few other companies. When did Apple get involved in the manufacture of them?
  - jjtheblunt 3y ago
    It’s actually mostly robots but (to your point) with humans at various stages.
- Aunche 3y ago
  This is a meaningless hypothetical because in no world is a highly successful company ever going to let go of all their workers. On the other hand, one can imagine in a less capital friendly world, nobody would partake in Apples 1996 junk bond offering that rescued them from bankruptcy. It's counterintuitive that a stupid investor who yolo'd their money could have a bigger impact than intelligent and hardworking workers, but that's exactly what happened. Without investment, these workers wouldn't be able to realize the potential that they had at Apple.

nonethewiser 3y ago

Virtually all companies oppose unionization. Am I to believe that all these companies are doing so out of sheer incompetence?

sequoia 3y ago
No, it is in the best interest of companies extract as much labour value from workers for as little expenditure of payroll as possible. This is not in the best interest of the workers, however. The interests of the workers and those of the employer diverge on this point and both are working, rationally, for opposing goals. If you’re in a fight and you have a weapon but your opponent is unarmed, of course you would oppose your opponent being given a weapon as that’s not in your best interest. Your opponent may see things differently, just as the employer and employees see things differently in this situation. Apple's opponent is currently unarmed, and Apple doesn't want to see them armed with the weapon of collective bargaining.
pierat 3y ago
These companies need to remember that NLRB and unionization was an agreement to take harsh violence off the table. In the old days, when First International and IWW was created, unionization efforts were to "set the bosses house on fire, with them in it", "pass out rifles to all workers and shoot up the bosses house", assaults, bombs.. you name it. That's also where we have the paramilitary force, Pinkertons. They were hired by the bosses to do the same thing to the union organizers. These companies have NO problem violating the meager federal law protections for workers. And to boot, there's basically no penalties. When things get bad enough, just watch for the "whoopsies", subvert sabotage, and direct violence against bosses and against property. Companies have forgotten about the older pact with unions to remove violence, and then now commit economic violence (destitution, starvation, etc). Maybe they should be reminded?
- JimtheCoder 3y ago
  "and then now commit economic violence (destitution, starvation, etc)." This is a new one. Thanks for sharing...
- 3y ago

pxc 3y ago

workers: *produce all the value* owners: think you can negotiate? get fucked, workers! noble bystander: hey, these workers are a key part of the value creation equation here!!