3 ms·

Sounds like Apple won this no? They prevented the union, which has given up, and their only punishment is to be told to stop doing something they should not ha

Sounds like Apple won this no? They prevented the union, which has given up, and their only punishment is to be told to stop doing something they should not have been doing anyway.

beepbooptheory 3y ago
While it does say the certain stores, like St. Louis, have given up due to Apple's antagonism, it also says: "Union efforts are slowly gaining ground at Apple stores across the country." Precedent like this can help future efforts in other places, at the very least. And in general, little back and forth events like this is maybe the best we can hope for in this world where actual worker leadership/autonomism is farther away than Mars. But yeah, at the same time, you can't help thinking still that Apple could probably just do whatever it wants indefinitely, and easily absorb these slaps on the wrist when they come about.
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  But wouldn't the precedent be "Apple won, unions lost"? No one would look at this and go "damn the union really handed Apple a can of whoop ass!"
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    The precedent is that the NLRB has issued a warning past this point. Apple can respond however they want, but this is their shot across the bow.
    - sidewndr46 3y ago
      But to my knowledge an NLRB warning is no effect. It isn't like after the 3rd warning, Apple enters Chapter 7 bankruptcy automatically. If I was Apple's legal counsel, I'd be telling them we won this round.
      - smoldesu 3y ago
        You don't win any fight that ends in a concession. Apple was instructed to cease-and-desist; if they continue along their current path, they could be held liable for violating federal labor laws. Their legal council is probably doing the same thing they did with the Uighur labor allegations and the Foxconn suicides - begging Apple to denounce it publicly and blame each instance rather than admit systemic abuse. It's pretty much all Apple knows at this point.
        sidewndr46 3y ago
        Issuing a cease and desist letter to a serial union buster is like telling Ted Bundy he needs to stop killing people. He probably agrees, but certainly isn't going to stop.
        smoldesu 3y ago
        Ted Bundy's story ends with him dying in government custody, so I'd agree that it's an apt metaphor.
  - beepbooptheory 3y ago
    Maybe, but Apple is the only one that really needs to worry about PR anyway. Workers just need to know what they want. In terms of like broader cultural perception/what you see on the news, its a lost cause for workers anyway. But I don't see it as a problem long term: if you are doing something that makes the bosses angry and maybe incites certain PR efforts to, e.g., make it look like Apple "won" despite an overall hopeful, or at least nuanced, outcome, then it sounds like you are doing something right. Workers in general really have nothing to lose in terms of public perception. Consider all the discourse around tipping. Or consider what people say on this very site in some threads about worker rights. In general, people implicitly or explicitly feel that if you are striking/in a union/living on tips/etc, you have already lost some game and are a sore loser for wanting more. And if you pay attention to the news, this general idea is regularly enforced. This is all especially true in the US, not to mention tech-adjacent sectors. But again, not really a problem per se, just a certain kind of indicator.
veave 3y ago
I assume if it happens again they won't be so lenient.
- LatteLazy 3y ago
  Sounds like they were lenient the first AND second time. But this time they really mean it. Assuming anyone will put their head in the noose and try to unionise a third time...
wahnfrieden 3y ago
They’ve done so by breaking the law
martin8412 3y ago
Start giving fines as percentages of worldwide revenue like the EU does. Suddenly union busting won't seem to attractive if it costs 1% of worldwide revenue.
- moi2388 3y ago
  Yes, and indeed use revenue rather than profit like it is now, since now they still make profits and have zero incentive to stop doing what they’re doing.

Sounds like Apple won this no? They prevented the union, which has given up, and their only punishment is to be told to stop doing something they should not have been doing anyway.

beepbooptheory 3y ago

While it does say the certain stores, like St. Louis, have given up due to Apple's antagonism, it also says: "Union efforts are slowly gaining ground at Apple stores across the country." Precedent like this can help future efforts in other places, at the very least. And in general, little back and forth events like this is maybe the best we can hope for in this world where actual worker leadership/autonomism is farther away than Mars. But yeah, at the same time, you can't help thinking still that Apple could probably just do whatever it wants indefinitely, and easily absorb these slaps on the wrist when they come about.

sidewndr46 3y ago
But wouldn't the precedent be "Apple won, unions lost"? No one would look at this and go "damn the union really handed Apple a can of whoop ass!"
- smoldesu 3y ago
  The precedent is that the NLRB has issued a warning past this point. Apple can respond however they want, but this is their shot across the bow.
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    But to my knowledge an NLRB warning is no effect. It isn't like after the 3rd warning, Apple enters Chapter 7 bankruptcy automatically. If I was Apple's legal counsel, I'd be telling them we won this round.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      You don't win any fight that ends in a concession. Apple was instructed to cease-and-desist; if they continue along their current path, they could be held liable for violating federal labor laws. Their legal council is probably doing the same thing they did with the Uighur labor allegations and the Foxconn suicides - begging Apple to denounce it publicly and blame each instance rather than admit systemic abuse. It's pretty much all Apple knows at this point.
      - sidewndr46 3y ago
        Issuing a cease and desist letter to a serial union buster is like telling Ted Bundy he needs to stop killing people. He probably agrees, but certainly isn't going to stop.
        smoldesu 3y ago
        Ted Bundy's story ends with him dying in government custody, so I'd agree that it's an apt metaphor.
- beepbooptheory 3y ago
  Maybe, but Apple is the only one that really needs to worry about PR anyway. Workers just need to know what they want. In terms of like broader cultural perception/what you see on the news, its a lost cause for workers anyway. But I don't see it as a problem long term: if you are doing something that makes the bosses angry and maybe incites certain PR efforts to, e.g., make it look like Apple "won" despite an overall hopeful, or at least nuanced, outcome, then it sounds like you are doing something right. Workers in general really have nothing to lose in terms of public perception. Consider all the discourse around tipping. Or consider what people say on this very site in some threads about worker rights. In general, people implicitly or explicitly feel that if you are striking/in a union/living on tips/etc, you have already lost some game and are a sore loser for wanting more. And if you pay attention to the news, this general idea is regularly enforced. This is all especially true in the US, not to mention tech-adjacent sectors. But again, not really a problem per se, just a certain kind of indicator.

veave 3y ago

I assume if it happens again they won't be so lenient.

LatteLazy 3y ago
Sounds like they were lenient the first AND second time. But this time they really mean it. Assuming anyone will put their head in the noose and try to unionise a third time...

wahnfrieden 3y ago

They’ve done so by breaking the law

martin8412 3y ago

Start giving fines as percentages of worldwide revenue like the EU does. Suddenly union busting won't seem to attractive if it costs 1% of worldwide revenue.

moi2388 3y ago
Yes, and indeed use revenue rather than profit like it is now, since now they still make profits and have zero incentive to stop doing what they’re doing.