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You're using as an example of bad behavior one of the best examples of something good that Behringer has done. Those chips should be cloned, and now there are,

by elihu 3y ago

You're using as an example of bad behavior one of the best examples of something good that Behringer has done. Those chips should be cloned, and now there are, I believe, at least three manufacturers of 3340 oscillator chips: CEM, Coolaudio, and Alfa. It's a very popular VCO chip in a number of eurorack modules, and has better tracking of volt-per-octave than any other analog VCO type I've used by far. Also, not very long ago those chips had been out of production. I believe CEM re-released their 3340 in 2016. I'm not sure if Coolaudio beat them to it, but anyways there was a long period where the only way to get new batches of the chip would have been to clone it. There are a lot of examples of legitimately bad behavior from Behringer as well.

notmypenguin 3y ago
Tell that to Curtis widow. The goal of this is not magnanimity but to drive other synth makers to bankruptcy with cheap zero R&D synths. I am not speaking out of my behind here. If Behringer succeeds, the world of music gear LOSES. If you want a 3340 clone buy Alfa for half the price and don’t feed CoolAudio
- glimshe 3y ago
  I'm sorry for her, but why do you think she's entitled to eternal earnings over this invention? When husbands die, the widow is lucky if they left behind savings and some real estate - that's what one should expect. If this invention is so good, the original Curtis could have used his earnings at the time to buy other durable assets instead of expecting the invention to be giving dividends forever. Let's remember that every invention builds on top of many other invention that are leveraged free of cost (like the transistor in this case).
- sireat 3y ago
  I did not like Behringer in the 90s when they built their original fortune by violating Mackie patents. However, what is wrong with perfectly cloning a chip whose patents have expired? Analogy would be with a drug whose patents have expired. If generic analogs are available, everone benefits except the original company. Everyone wins, who is the loser here? Curtis family have the right to be upset but they do not have the right to perpetual profits. https://ask.audio/articles/curtis-family-speaks-out-against-behringer-synth-clone-plans-using-cem3340 https://ask.audio/articles/curtis-family-speaks-out-against-...
  - elihu 3y ago
    Were they accused of violating patents? I thought that was a copyright/trademark dispute, and the suit failed in part because copyright doesn't protect device manufacturers against competitors making a product with the same schematic. I think that's a good thing.
- x3874 3y ago
  ...Uli took a piss in your cereal or are you on a crusade or something, to defend every audio gear corp under the sun against evil Musictribe? There are so many others already doing the same, you don't need to waste your time. Go outside, it is very healthy :)
- elihu 3y ago
  I do use Alfa VCOs (or anyways AI Synthesis does, and I bought the chips through them to build some of their VCO modules), but it seems weird you'd recommend them over CEM, since presumably they're "ripping off" Curtis' design just as much as CoolAudio -- or does Alfa pay a licensing fee to CEM? You might be right that Behringer is bad for the music industry in other ways and that I shouldn't support them through CoolAudio, but I don't see anything wrong with cloning an old chip. Patents are for a limited time and I think that's a good thing. If CoolAudio made an identical copy of the chip layout, maybe CEM could go after them for copyright violation, but I'm not aware of any claims that CoolAudio did that.
- duped 3y ago
  Cheaper and more available parts is better for the industry no matter which way you cut it.

by elihu 3y ago

notmypenguin 3y ago

Tell that to Curtis widow. The goal of this is not magnanimity but to drive other synth makers to bankruptcy with cheap zero R&D synths. I am not speaking out of my behind here. If Behringer succeeds, the world of music gear LOSES. If you want a 3340 clone buy Alfa for half the price and don’t feed CoolAudio

glimshe 3y ago
I'm sorry for her, but why do you think she's entitled to eternal earnings over this invention? When husbands die, the widow is lucky if they left behind savings and some real estate - that's what one should expect. If this invention is so good, the original Curtis could have used his earnings at the time to buy other durable assets instead of expecting the invention to be giving dividends forever. Let's remember that every invention builds on top of many other invention that are leveraged free of cost (like the transistor in this case).
sireat 3y ago
I did not like Behringer in the 90s when they built their original fortune by violating Mackie patents. However, what is wrong with perfectly cloning a chip whose patents have expired? Analogy would be with a drug whose patents have expired. If generic analogs are available, everone benefits except the original company. Everyone wins, who is the loser here? Curtis family have the right to be upset but they do not have the right to perpetual profits. https://ask.audio/articles/curtis-family-speaks-out-against-behringer-synth-clone-plans-using-cem3340 https://ask.audio/articles/curtis-family-speaks-out-against-...
- elihu 3y ago
  Were they accused of violating patents? I thought that was a copyright/trademark dispute, and the suit failed in part because copyright doesn't protect device manufacturers against competitors making a product with the same schematic. I think that's a good thing.
x3874 3y ago
...Uli took a piss in your cereal or are you on a crusade or something, to defend every audio gear corp under the sun against evil Musictribe? There are so many others already doing the same, you don't need to waste your time. Go outside, it is very healthy :)
elihu 3y ago
I do use Alfa VCOs (or anyways AI Synthesis does, and I bought the chips through them to build some of their VCO modules), but it seems weird you'd recommend them over CEM, since presumably they're "ripping off" Curtis' design just as much as CoolAudio -- or does Alfa pay a licensing fee to CEM? You might be right that Behringer is bad for the music industry in other ways and that I shouldn't support them through CoolAudio, but I don't see anything wrong with cloning an old chip. Patents are for a limited time and I think that's a good thing. If CoolAudio made an identical copy of the chip layout, maybe CEM could go after them for copyright violation, but I'm not aware of any claims that CoolAudio did that.
duped 3y ago
Cheaper and more available parts is better for the industry no matter which way you cut it.