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In other news, Stanford is one of the four best undergraduate programs and Carnegie Mellon is... not. Don't get me wrong, CMU has a great computer science facu

In other news, Stanford is one of the four best undergraduate programs and Carnegie Mellon is... not. Don't get me wrong, CMU has a great computer science faculty, but looking at random CMU alumni doesn't tell you much because a random CMU grad isn't that different from a random Georgetown grad.

jimbokun 3y ago
What's your top 4?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- jdm2212 3y ago
  The standard top 4 is HYPS (plus MIT and Caltech)
nerdchum 3y ago
Yeah a random Georgetown or CMU grad has a lot more question marks than a top 4 school. They may be good but if so why werent they in a top 4 school?
- sho_hn 3y ago
  It's so funky to read this as a European. I've probably never looked at the edu section of any CV.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    In the UK, a lot of people definitely notice Oxbridge. (Obviously other good UK schools as well.)
    - sho_hn 3y ago
      I've lived in South Korea for four years, and the academic class system there is incredibly intense as well. If you didn't get a chance to go to a SKY uni (Ivy League on steroids), you're essentially a different species as far as society is concerned. Whether you get in depends on a single standardized one-day test at the end of your HS journey that seals your fate for life. Have a bad day? Tough. Alternate pathways and wiggle room are close to non-existant. My wife (who grew up with Korean as her mother tongue, and did well on that test) chose to go to Peking University and did her undergrad (in sociology) in Mandarin, i.e. she spent a couple of extra years beforehand acquiring a foreign language first to be able to speak/write it at college level (and later she added a Master's in Public Policy in English from a European school). At work in Korea this then sometimes got her mobbed for "taking the easy route" vs. attending a SKY uni. It was really crazy given the effort she put in. Overall, I prefer the more laid-back European (perhaps just German?) every-school-is-decent-on-average-and-really-no-one-cares. Sure, someone will say "it's why you don't have Google" next. Maybe.
      - ghaff 3y ago
        It's somewhat complicated in the US. There are big both technical-focused, primarily liberal arts, and broader programs that "everyone" has heard of. There are also big state schools that may let you take "rocks for jocks" but actually have some pretty good faculty and programs if you seek them out. There are also a lot of regionalisms. In a given state, a lot of hiring managers probably went to one of those big state schools. In any case, if you're in the Boston area say, someone hiring for a technical role is far more likely to have gone to one of the engineering schools in the area than Stanford or Berkeley. And, while I'm pretty sure I'd have gotten the position anyway (for various reasons), the fact that I went to the same school as my original hiring manager probably helped seal the deal.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > so funky to read this as a European France and Italy have their gatekeeping schools. And at the level of high finance bridging into politics, I don’t usually know anyone’s education, but am somehow familiar with their families at the end of a dinner meeting.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- darkwizard42 3y ago
  Because there are literally more qualified students than spots available at a top school? Also because of other factors like financial need, geographic location, program preference, faculty preference, campus preference, etc. that might influence the decision?
iancmceachern 3y ago
Engineering schools? My top 4 would be mit, Berkley, Stanford, and caltech.
- jdm2212 3y ago
  Berkeley is not that hard to get into for in-state students (much easier than CMU or Georgetown). But, yes to Stanford/MIT/Caltech.
- lasermatts 3y ago
  Sad Georgia Tech noises
jchonphoenix 3y ago
Full disclosure, I'm a CMU alum. I think this article chose CMU because for Computer Science and technical startups, it's well understood in the valley that CMU is a top 4 school (and for many, a top 2 school) for producing software engineers, which tend to underpin a lot of tech startups. Totally agree if you move outside of software companies that this makes sense. Anecdotally, I'll say CMU tends to produce individuals who are technically overweight but perhaps lacking in business sense. This is both because of school culture and the broader Pittsburgh community.
- jdm2212 3y ago
  I'm a Georgetown alum. Georgetown alumni do the same thing with international relations that CMU alumni do with CS where we like to pretend that because there's a really good IR graduate program that we undergrads were somehow special because of that. Also, as with CMU, there are definitely more people who are interested in the topic, and a subset of them really are quite talented, but the talent density just isn't as high as at HYPS/MIT/Caltech, and as you noted, the talented people aren't as well-rounded (because if they were, they would've gotten into HYPS/MIT/Caltech).
  - imagainstit 3y ago
    CMU School of Computer Science has its own admissions for undergrad which is dramatically more selective than CMU as a whole. It really is well known for undergrad CS, it's not just a halo effect of the grad program.
    - jdm2212 3y ago
      CMU has 7000 undergrads, of whom 600 are in the School of Computer Science. So, if you take a random CMU student who decided to start a company and looked for VC funding, you've got a <10% chance of an SCS alum and a 90% chance of a non-SCS student (assuming likelihood of starting companies is uniform, which who knows if it is but I have no reason to assume otherwise). Whereas at Stanford 100% of students had to get into Stanford.
  - 3y ago

jimbokun 3y ago

What's your top 4?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jdm2212 3y ago
The standard top 4 is HYPS (plus MIT and Caltech)

nerdchum 3y ago

Yeah a random Georgetown or CMU grad has a lot more question marks than a top 4 school. They may be good but if so why werent they in a top 4 school?

sho_hn 3y ago
It's so funky to read this as a European. I've probably never looked at the edu section of any CV.
- ghaff 3y ago
  In the UK, a lot of people definitely notice Oxbridge. (Obviously other good UK schools as well.)
  - sho_hn 3y ago
    I've lived in South Korea for four years, and the academic class system there is incredibly intense as well. If you didn't get a chance to go to a SKY uni (Ivy League on steroids), you're essentially a different species as far as society is concerned. Whether you get in depends on a single standardized one-day test at the end of your HS journey that seals your fate for life. Have a bad day? Tough. Alternate pathways and wiggle room are close to non-existant. My wife (who grew up with Korean as her mother tongue, and did well on that test) chose to go to Peking University and did her undergrad (in sociology) in Mandarin, i.e. she spent a couple of extra years beforehand acquiring a foreign language first to be able to speak/write it at college level (and later she added a Master's in Public Policy in English from a European school). At work in Korea this then sometimes got her mobbed for "taking the easy route" vs. attending a SKY uni. It was really crazy given the effort she put in. Overall, I prefer the more laid-back European (perhaps just German?) every-school-is-decent-on-average-and-really-no-one-cares. Sure, someone will say "it's why you don't have Google" next. Maybe.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      It's somewhat complicated in the US. There are big both technical-focused, primarily liberal arts, and broader programs that "everyone" has heard of. There are also big state schools that may let you take "rocks for jocks" but actually have some pretty good faculty and programs if you seek them out. There are also a lot of regionalisms. In a given state, a lot of hiring managers probably went to one of those big state schools. In any case, if you're in the Boston area say, someone hiring for a technical role is far more likely to have gone to one of the engineering schools in the area than Stanford or Berkeley. And, while I'm pretty sure I'd have gotten the position anyway (for various reasons), the fact that I went to the same school as my original hiring manager probably helped seal the deal.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > so funky to read this as a European France and Italy have their gatekeeping schools. And at the level of high finance bridging into politics, I don’t usually know anyone’s education, but am somehow familiar with their families at the end of a dinner meeting.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
darkwizard42 3y ago
Because there are literally more qualified students than spots available at a top school? Also because of other factors like financial need, geographic location, program preference, faculty preference, campus preference, etc. that might influence the decision?

iancmceachern 3y ago

Engineering schools? My top 4 would be mit, Berkley, Stanford, and caltech.

jdm2212 3y ago
Berkeley is not that hard to get into for in-state students (much easier than CMU or Georgetown). But, yes to Stanford/MIT/Caltech.
lasermatts 3y ago
Sad Georgia Tech noises

jchonphoenix 3y ago

Full disclosure, I'm a CMU alum. I think this article chose CMU because for Computer Science and technical startups, it's well understood in the valley that CMU is a top 4 school (and for many, a top 2 school) for producing software engineers, which tend to underpin a lot of tech startups. Totally agree if you move outside of software companies that this makes sense. Anecdotally, I'll say CMU tends to produce individuals who are technically overweight but perhaps lacking in business sense. This is both because of school culture and the broader Pittsburgh community.

jdm2212 3y ago
I'm a Georgetown alum. Georgetown alumni do the same thing with international relations that CMU alumni do with CS where we like to pretend that because there's a really good IR graduate program that we undergrads were somehow special because of that. Also, as with CMU, there are definitely more people who are interested in the topic, and a subset of them really are quite talented, but the talent density just isn't as high as at HYPS/MIT/Caltech, and as you noted, the talented people aren't as well-rounded (because if they were, they would've gotten into HYPS/MIT/Caltech).
- imagainstit 3y ago
  CMU School of Computer Science has its own admissions for undergrad which is dramatically more selective than CMU as a whole. It really is well known for undergrad CS, it's not just a halo effect of the grad program.
  - jdm2212 3y ago
    CMU has 7000 undergrads, of whom 600 are in the School of Computer Science. So, if you take a random CMU student who decided to start a company and looked for VC funding, you've got a <10% chance of an SCS alum and a 90% chance of a non-SCS student (assuming likelihood of starting companies is uniform, which who knows if it is but I have no reason to assume otherwise). Whereas at Stanford 100% of students had to get into Stanford.
- 3y ago