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I am an EV user. My connection is not Tesla compatible. I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection for all EVs the same way th
by javier_e06 3y ago
I am an EV user. My connection is not Tesla compatible. I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection for all EVs the same way there is a common gas intake for all gas powered vehicles.
- freerobby 3y agoWhat charge port do you have that isn't Tesla compatible with an adapter?
- Rebelgecko 3y agoAFAICT, unless you're in San Francisco, Sacramento, or New York there is currently no adapter that will let a non-Tesla vehicle use a supercharger.
- simondotau 3y agoThat's because much of the Supercharger network was deployed with the assumption of only supporting Tesla vehicles. If any third party charging network deployed NACS fast charging stalls in your area, they would absolutely be compatible with any CCS1 vehicle with an adapter.
- Rebelgecko 3y agoWould something like a TeslaTap work with a 350kW charger? Or do new adapters need to be created?
- josephcsible 3y agoAdapters like TeslaTap output J1772, not CCS, so new adapters will need to be created (like the Magic Dock).
- simondotau 3y agoThe most likely outcome is that third party stalls will either mimic Tesla's magic dock or over-provision with two cables per stall, or (most likely) have some ratio of NACS-only, CCS1-only, and CHAdeMO stalls based on demand.
- mattmaroon 3y agoSeems like it’s happening without government intervention. It’s hard to imagine now that Ford, GM, and Tesla are on the same standard that the rest will not follow suit.
- perfectstorm 3y agoVolkswagen owns Electrify America the only competitor at scale to Tesla's supercharging network. they uses CCS and VW is one of the largest car manufacturers in the world. i think they can stand on their own. time will tell though.
- mohaine 3y agoWorld status doesn’t mater as this is North America only. Volkswagen doesn’t have a chance and tbh, I doubt they care that much. They certainly didn’t care enough to make electrify America good.
- gibolt 3y agoThey were forced to make EA as part of Dieselgate. If most vehicles is the U.S. are on NACS, they will be forced to switch by market forces alone.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoGo check out some car forums for folks that depend on EA (like Lucid). I've never had an issue with EA, but the general consensus seems to be that EA reliability is abysmal, with stations frequently being down (though reviews seem to be on an uptrend starting in 2023, so perhaps it was a pandemic related issue). As another commenter stated, though, Volkswagen was forced to create EA as part of their Dieselgate settlement, and their behavior in the past hasn't exactly instilled confidence that they see it as something worth investing in.
- darth_avocado 3y agoEA is bad at best. Very unreliable network, especially the ones not near urban centers. Yeah you get reliable charging if you’re near big cities but once you’re out in the middle of nowhere, it can be terrifying. I’ve personally arrived at an EA charger to only find it not working and the next closest one was a 50 mile detour. Thankfully I plan liberally, but I’d be in a very bad spot if not. Someone I know, also had a locking problem where the charger wouldn’t detach. And I’ve seen news items relating to literal bricking of cars by using the chargers.
- mkozlows 3y agoThey did. It was CCS. Everyone except Tesla was on board to using it, and it was widely viewed as the standard going forward, and even Tesla was retro-fitting its chargers with CCS ("Magic Dock"), and presumably would one day switch its cars over. Then Tesla pulled a fast one on the morons at GM and Ford, who signed stupid deals that handed the future back to Tesla, and now the only question is whether Tesla consolidates the entire industry behind it (possible) or we end up in a world with a split between NACS and CCS (also possible, but probably less likely).
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> Tesla pulled a fast one on the morons at GM and Ford Consumers prefer NACS to CCS. And Electrify America failed, spectacularly, to deliver a working product. (As someone put it bluntly, NACS exists. CCS does not. You bet on the horse, not the unicorn.) The auto industry is standardising around NACS because it will eventually force the standard into the open. That, in turn, enables antitrust questions about the Tesla/Supercharger tie-up. (In the meantime, everyone avoids the wastefulness of a meaningless standards battle.)
- bombcar 3y agoWe should have some brand of car install both plugs (as I understand the smarts are in the car, the plug is basically a dumb electrical connection) and then after a year or two see which people are using.
- Rebelgecko 3y agoMy understanding is that installing both is basically 2x the complexity. What's on the other side of the plug is fairly different between NACS and CCS
- bombcar 3y agoIs that “double the price of the car” or “an extra 100/200” or somewhere in between. Because I could see people taking the option.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mustacheemperor 3y ago>I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection That is exactly why this is happening. Tesla is expanding their network and opening it to more manufacturers in pursuit of a $7.5bn federal funding program.[0] >the new rules, issued after nearly eight months of debate...seeks to give consumers unfettered access to a growing coast-to-coast network of EV charging stations, including Tesla's Superchargers. >Companies that hope to tap $7.5 billion in federal funding for this network must also adopt the dominant U.S. standard for charging connectors, known as "Combined Charging System" or CCS; use standardized payment options; a single method of identification that works across all chargers; and work 97% of the time. Interesting enough, Tesla is (currently) obliged to add CCS compatibility to their chargers for eligibility, but these manufacturers are adopting their connector regardless. >The new rules would allow Tesla to keep its unique connectors, but it will have to add a permanently attached CCS connector or adapter that charges a CCS-compliant vehicle, similar to a gas pump that has a separate handle for gas versus diesel. [0]https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/new-biden-ev-charger-rules-stress-made-america-force-tesla-changes-2023-02-15/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/new-bi...
- nilsbunger 3y agoBut will the CCS be as fast at charging ? It seems like Tesla could control a lot with their proprietary connector if it has a faster charge rate.
- recursive 3y agoThe fastest chargers today are CCS.
- kristofferR 3y agoIt's a wash, basically. The fastest CCS chargers are ~360KW, and Tesla Supercharger V4 will apparently support 350KW within a year.
- 3y ago
- pseudosavant 3y agoI've had EVs for 7+ years now and have plenty of experience with J1772, Chaedmo, and CCS. All I can say is thank heavens Tesla's connector is getting adopted! It is the only connector that seems like it was designed with the ease-of-use regular people expect - not what us early adopter EV people will put up with. This kind of friction does impede adoption too.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoAs someone who has only ever used J1772/CCS, can you explain a bit more? I mean, it's just a plug that I stick into my car - I find the newer US home AC electric outlets with the automatic "safety shutters" harder to plug into than a CCS connector, so I don't really understand what friction you're referring to.
- neon_electro 3y agoAs someone else with 5+ years driving EVs with a CCS plug, they work for me, but I can see them being much more unwieldy for physically challenged folks. The Tesla connector is easier to manipulate and line up correctly with the charge port.
- kevin_thibedeau 3y agoUltimately it's going to boil down to money. Having DC and AC charging share the same conductors makes the plug cables cheaper. That adds up when deploying and maintaining a charger network.
- damon_c 3y agoOne concrete thing that is better about the Tesla connector is that there are no moving parts that user needs to manipulate. Tesla/NACs connector is just stick it in and it works... the car holds onto it until it is done or you tell it to let go. I don't think I've ever seen a public J1772 connector that had a functional spring in the little thumbpress/lock/turn on thing which means if you don't know you need to stick a key or pen cap, or squeeze really hard to pry the little fucking plastic tab up to the lock position, it just won't work.
- ShadowBanThis01 3y agoThat should have been done years ago. And "prod" should have been "required." ball = dropped So now, once again, the USA adopts a "standard" shunned by the rest of the world.
- SllX 3y agoI guess Japan and China don’t exist in your world.
- ShadowBanThis01 3y agoIncorrect. But, to be fair, the Chinese were still watching movies on CD-I well into the 2000s. So I admit to marginalizing their choice on anything.
- SllX 3y ago> So now, once again, the USA adopts a "standard" shunned by the rest of the world. Maybe I could have the wrong read, but this sentence structure: > the USA… shunned by the rest of the world. Does two things: it implies there's a standard "the rest of the world" has agreed on (there isn't, and there never is, it's one of the things that makes the world big) and it signals you as probably one of the two types of people which might be unintentional on your part, but still: 1. A European complaining about America. 2. An American complaining that we're not doing things the European way. There are other possibilities, but those are the two most probable reads. As far as charging standards go, we haven't settled on a standard because there's only one charging network worth a damn in the country, and until Tesla started making agreements with other automakers to sign them on, it was exclusively for use by their customers which isn't great if you're Ford or GM or another startup EV manufacturer and trying to get people to buy your electric cars instead. Right now it looks like (in my opinion, this is not settled) we'll probably settle on NACS, but as opposed to what? CCS? 1 or 2? CHAdeMO/ChaoJi? Is there a technical issue you have with NACS specifically or is it just that it's not a de jure standard somewhere else?
- 3y ago
- brightball 3y agoIMO the market is too new and there’s more room for innovation here. At the point that EVs can be charged in less than 5 minutes, I’d be on board with standardizing.