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An exchange is basically a bank without the regulations and consumer protections of real banks. It also defeats the purpose of crypto. It's the worst of both wo

An exchange is basically a bank without the regulations and consumer protections of real banks. It also defeats the purpose of crypto. It's the worst of both worlds.

babypuncher 3y ago
And then they wonder why regular consumers aren't fleeing banks to start using crypto for everything. I've yet to see cryptocurrencies actually solve a problem that your everyday average person has when buying groceries or going out to eat. They just make things more difficult and confusing, and all these attempts to alleviate that just lead us straight to "banks, but worse".
- roarcher 3y ago
  The volatility alone must be a dealbreaker for most people. Shockingly, the average consumer does not enjoy the rollercoaster thrill of having no idea how much buying power they'll have tomorrow.
  - BasedAnon 3y ago
    The increasing volatility of fiat is making this less of a problem.
    - roarcher 3y ago
      Maybe, but the world's major currencies have a long way to go before they're anywhere near Bitcoin levels of volatility. At the moment crypto is suitable for speculation and not much else. As a currency it's only superior in a couple of use cases, namely if a government has frozen your accounts or you're doing something illegal.
      - BasedAnon 3y ago
        I don't think it's a long way, maybe 10 years at most.
- bulbosaur123 3y ago
  This is what most people got wrong. Crypto solves one problem and one problem only: censorship. Crypto is the only, single censorship resistant asset on the entire earth. You can't remove private key by force ($5 wrench is not an argument). You can confiscate land, stocks, freeze bank accounts, take gold. You can't extract a string of numbers which you aren't even sure is there in the first place. Not yet at least. Might not be the biggest threat in US, but in Asia right now that property is crucial.
  - misnome 3y ago
    So, people have no problem - say - redeeming tokens that have been through Tornado? Or trouble redeeming bitcoins that have been through known, sanctioned wallets? How is “Everyone can see every transaction you have ever done” censorship-resistant, doesn’t that mean you have to be extra careful about every single person or service you have ever transacted with? And, excluding the $5 wrench seems a really, really large oversight when it results in every single asset or piece of ”money” you own being irretrievably, instantly stolen.
    - bulbosaur123 3y ago
      > So, people have no problem - say - redeeming tokens that have been through Tornado? Or trouble redeeming bitcoins that have been through known, sanctioned wallets? Nothing prevents us agreeing to trade those bitcoins for cash or anything else. You are correct that some Bitcoins are "tainted", which is why it's not the absolute, most perfect cryptocurrency. But they are still censorship resistant. That was my point. They still can't be confiscated. And to further your argument, if you want to find the best crypto that is actually fungible - that would be Monero (all Moneros are the same, there are no "tainted" or "blacklisted" Moneros). However, because of that very fact it is banned on exchanges and blacklisted everywhere. It's just too good. Bitcoin is good enough to get popular yet at the same time shitty enough (traceable) not to get outright banned, that's why BTC is here to stay while better coins like Monero will perish. > How is “Everyone can see every transaction you have ever done” censorship-resistant, doesn’t that mean you have to be extra careful about every single person or service you have ever transacted with? Just to reiterate. It's because not even the government can confiscate your Bitcoin (them beating you into telling your seed phrase means you still giving it up and let's not pretend there aren't 21st seeds and duress phrases just for this very reason). > And, excluding the $5 wrench seems a really, really large oversight when it results in every single asset or piece of ”money” you own being irretrievably, instantly stolen. Again. Anyone with significant amount of crypto will not be public about it, will keep duress phrases, 21st seed words and extra wallets while giving up the minimum. In theory, with $5 wrench you could keep beating a totally innocent person hoping they give you a crypto wallet that doesn't even exist and if they gave you one, you could keep beating them until they give you the "other one" and the "third one", it just isn't a solid argument.
charlieyu1 3y ago
Still, exchanges exist because there is a large demand of customers converting between fiat and crypto, also probably reduce transcation fee and time to be low enough to allow trading derivative products. Not perfect but probably a necessary evil.
- paxys 3y ago
  The demand for simply converting from fiat to crypto to hold or spend it does exist, but is probably negligible compared to wanting to do the equivalent of investing or day trading.
  - charlieyu1 3y ago
    And how is that a bad thing?
knocte 3y ago
Completely agree with the general idea of your comment. Although there are non-custodial (decentralized/P2P) exchanges that, because they don't hold user's funds, would not fall into the category that you have described. E.g.: * P2P exchanges: LNP2Pbot, hodlhodl, etc. * Decentralized exchanges: FixedFloat, Uniswap, etc.

An exchange is basically a bank without the regulations and consumer protections of real banks. It also defeats the purpose of crypto. It's the worst of both worlds.

babypuncher 3y ago

And then they wonder why regular consumers aren't fleeing banks to start using crypto for everything. I've yet to see cryptocurrencies actually solve a problem that your everyday average person has when buying groceries or going out to eat. They just make things more difficult and confusing, and all these attempts to alleviate that just lead us straight to "banks, but worse".

roarcher 3y ago
The volatility alone must be a dealbreaker for most people. Shockingly, the average consumer does not enjoy the rollercoaster thrill of having no idea how much buying power they'll have tomorrow.
- BasedAnon 3y ago
  The increasing volatility of fiat is making this less of a problem.
  - roarcher 3y ago
    Maybe, but the world's major currencies have a long way to go before they're anywhere near Bitcoin levels of volatility. At the moment crypto is suitable for speculation and not much else. As a currency it's only superior in a couple of use cases, namely if a government has frozen your accounts or you're doing something illegal.
    - BasedAnon 3y ago
      I don't think it's a long way, maybe 10 years at most.
bulbosaur123 3y ago
This is what most people got wrong. Crypto solves one problem and one problem only: censorship. Crypto is the only, single censorship resistant asset on the entire earth. You can't remove private key by force ($5 wrench is not an argument). You can confiscate land, stocks, freeze bank accounts, take gold. You can't extract a string of numbers which you aren't even sure is there in the first place. Not yet at least. Might not be the biggest threat in US, but in Asia right now that property is crucial.
- misnome 3y ago
  So, people have no problem - say - redeeming tokens that have been through Tornado? Or trouble redeeming bitcoins that have been through known, sanctioned wallets? How is “Everyone can see every transaction you have ever done” censorship-resistant, doesn’t that mean you have to be extra careful about every single person or service you have ever transacted with? And, excluding the $5 wrench seems a really, really large oversight when it results in every single asset or piece of ”money” you own being irretrievably, instantly stolen.
  - bulbosaur123 3y ago
    > So, people have no problem - say - redeeming tokens that have been through Tornado? Or trouble redeeming bitcoins that have been through known, sanctioned wallets? Nothing prevents us agreeing to trade those bitcoins for cash or anything else. You are correct that some Bitcoins are "tainted", which is why it's not the absolute, most perfect cryptocurrency. But they are still censorship resistant. That was my point. They still can't be confiscated. And to further your argument, if you want to find the best crypto that is actually fungible - that would be Monero (all Moneros are the same, there are no "tainted" or "blacklisted" Moneros). However, because of that very fact it is banned on exchanges and blacklisted everywhere. It's just too good. Bitcoin is good enough to get popular yet at the same time shitty enough (traceable) not to get outright banned, that's why BTC is here to stay while better coins like Monero will perish. > How is “Everyone can see every transaction you have ever done” censorship-resistant, doesn’t that mean you have to be extra careful about every single person or service you have ever transacted with? Just to reiterate. It's because not even the government can confiscate your Bitcoin (them beating you into telling your seed phrase means you still giving it up and let's not pretend there aren't 21st seeds and duress phrases just for this very reason). > And, excluding the $5 wrench seems a really, really large oversight when it results in every single asset or piece of ”money” you own being irretrievably, instantly stolen. Again. Anyone with significant amount of crypto will not be public about it, will keep duress phrases, 21st seed words and extra wallets while giving up the minimum. In theory, with $5 wrench you could keep beating a totally innocent person hoping they give you a crypto wallet that doesn't even exist and if they gave you one, you could keep beating them until they give you the "other one" and the "third one", it just isn't a solid argument.

charlieyu1 3y ago

Still, exchanges exist because there is a large demand of customers converting between fiat and crypto, also probably reduce transcation fee and time to be low enough to allow trading derivative products. Not perfect but probably a necessary evil.

paxys 3y ago
The demand for simply converting from fiat to crypto to hold or spend it does exist, but is probably negligible compared to wanting to do the equivalent of investing or day trading.
- charlieyu1 3y ago
  And how is that a bad thing?

knocte 3y ago

Completely agree with the general idea of your comment. Although there are non-custodial (decentralized/P2P) exchanges that, because they don't hold user's funds, would not fall into the category that you have described. E.g.: * P2P exchanges: LNP2Pbot, hodlhodl, etc. * Decentralized exchanges: FixedFloat, Uniswap, etc.