7 ms·

Grew up with CRTs giving me horrible headaches and LCDs was a breath of fresh air for my eyes. Headaches gone! Then came OLEDs and brought back headaches. Luck

Grew up with CRTs giving me horrible headaches and LCDs was a breath of fresh air for my eyes. Headaches gone! Then came OLEDs and brought back headaches. Luckily Apple still sells the iPhone SE with LCD. I really don’t know what I will do once LCDs are gone.

porphyra 3y ago
I wonder why? With CRTs there is noticeable flickering but no such issue happens with OLEDs. Is it just the contrast ratio?
- kitsunesoba 3y ago
  Not entirely sure but I think OLED pixels modulate brightness with PWM, which causes high frequency (though invisible) flickering.
  - murderberry 3y ago
    LCDs have PWM-dimmed backlights, so if your laptop isn't set to maximum brightness, you're probably staring at a flickering surface too. Perhaps a simpler explanation is just contrast? Both OLEDs and CRTs can produce much higher contrast than LCDs.
    - fomine3 3y ago
      No PWM is common for LCDs https://www.notebookcheck.net/PWM-Ranking-Notebooks-Smartphones-and-Tablets-with-PWM.163979.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/PWM-Ranking-Notebooks-Smartpho...
      - xioxox 3y ago
        The PWM frequency is typically much higher for LCDs than OLEDs, if it is used, and much less likely to be a problem.
- masswerk 3y ago
  Regarding CRT flicker: for monitors, you don't want to drive a CRT below 90Hz (120 Hz is pretty stable), even TVs were at the end 100Hz (refreshing frames multiple times). The problem was "cost effective" office PCs with graphics hardware just capable of 60Hz refresh, which isn't a great idea, unless you have a monochrome monitor with slow phosphor. (Meaning, this was just an abuse of technology – and workers.)
  - toast0 3y ago
    > even TVs were at the end 100Hz (refreshing frames multiple times) Maybe in Europe? But 100Hz is a terrible thing to do with 60Hz signals. Possibly US bound HD CRT TVs did 120Hz? But I don't recall hearing about those ever.
    - masswerk 3y ago
      Yes, my experience was definitively European, as in PAL. It was rather neat, until the image panned… (The problem being, apparently you still have to alternate between fields in order to maintain the illusion of interlaced video, so you get an A-B-A-B C-D–C-D… sequence. Some attempts were made to improve the resulting interlace clash by comb filters, etc, but this only started to work somewhat properly, when the days of CRTs were already numbered.) I actually don't know if there were similar developments with 60Hz standards.
blackoil 3y ago
What about MicroLED? New Macs and iPad Pro use them.
- p1esk 3y ago
  You mean MiniLED?
  - rootw0rm 3y ago
    i'm holding out for LED-C
    - Miraste 3y ago
      Apple is thoughtfully calling the Vision Pro displays microOLED, not to be confused with microLED.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  In this situation microLED should be the same as OLED, also those don't use it.
- temikus 3y ago
  Not the OP but I am sensitive and sadly found the MiniLED to be unusable as well. Had to switch from a 15’ MBP to the low-cost 13” with the old-school 500nit display.
exmadscientist 3y ago
Is it OLED displays themselves that bother you, or the truly horrid subpixel arrangements they use on phones? I love my LG OLED TV, with a full matrix (RGBW at every pixel). Phones, using something like PenTile, usually have half the number of red and blue subpixels, and in funny arrangements at that. Phone OLED displays make my eyes hurt, especially when anything is scrolling.
- novok 3y ago
  Is that the same with iPhones too?
  - Miraste 3y ago
    Yes it is. Deranged subpixel arrangements aren't an inherent feature of OLEDs, but I believe they're easier to manufacture so they're used in everything. The only OLED product I remember having normal RGB stripe pixels was the original PSVR, and that was dropped for the PSVR 2. Samsung especially likes to mess with this, these days they are using triangular pixels for some reason.
- starky 3y ago
  Pentile is a pox on the entire phone industry that they use to justify using crappy low resolution displays under the guise of something higher resolution. "1080p" Pentile is really like an 880p RGB matrix display.
Dylan16807 3y ago
Some OLEDs don't use PWM, and some PWM fast enough not to cause problems. Also badly driven LCD backlights can flicker badly too.
Acrobatic_Road 3y ago
I'm not sure how OLED can give you a headache, but not an LCD.
noobermin 3y ago
My wife has issues with bright screens, for her, matte coatings/films are a lifesaver. Have you tried those?

porphyra 3y ago

I wonder why? With CRTs there is noticeable flickering but no such issue happens with OLEDs. Is it just the contrast ratio?

kitsunesoba 3y ago
Not entirely sure but I think OLED pixels modulate brightness with PWM, which causes high frequency (though invisible) flickering.
- murderberry 3y ago
  LCDs have PWM-dimmed backlights, so if your laptop isn't set to maximum brightness, you're probably staring at a flickering surface too. Perhaps a simpler explanation is just contrast? Both OLEDs and CRTs can produce much higher contrast than LCDs.
  - fomine3 3y ago
    No PWM is common for LCDs https://www.notebookcheck.net/PWM-Ranking-Notebooks-Smartphones-and-Tablets-with-PWM.163979.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/PWM-Ranking-Notebooks-Smartpho...
    - xioxox 3y ago
      The PWM frequency is typically much higher for LCDs than OLEDs, if it is used, and much less likely to be a problem.
masswerk 3y ago
Regarding CRT flicker: for monitors, you don't want to drive a CRT below 90Hz (120 Hz is pretty stable), even TVs were at the end 100Hz (refreshing frames multiple times). The problem was "cost effective" office PCs with graphics hardware just capable of 60Hz refresh, which isn't a great idea, unless you have a monochrome monitor with slow phosphor. (Meaning, this was just an abuse of technology – and workers.)
- toast0 3y ago
  > even TVs were at the end 100Hz (refreshing frames multiple times) Maybe in Europe? But 100Hz is a terrible thing to do with 60Hz signals. Possibly US bound HD CRT TVs did 120Hz? But I don't recall hearing about those ever.
  - masswerk 3y ago
    Yes, my experience was definitively European, as in PAL. It was rather neat, until the image panned… (The problem being, apparently you still have to alternate between fields in order to maintain the illusion of interlaced video, so you get an A-B-A-B C-D–C-D… sequence. Some attempts were made to improve the resulting interlace clash by comb filters, etc, but this only started to work somewhat properly, when the days of CRTs were already numbered.) I actually don't know if there were similar developments with 60Hz standards.

blackoil 3y ago

What about MicroLED? New Macs and iPad Pro use them.

p1esk 3y ago
You mean MiniLED?
- rootw0rm 3y ago
  i'm holding out for LED-C
  - Miraste 3y ago
    Apple is thoughtfully calling the Vision Pro displays microOLED, not to be confused with microLED.
Dylan16807 3y ago
In this situation microLED should be the same as OLED, also those don't use it.
temikus 3y ago
Not the OP but I am sensitive and sadly found the MiniLED to be unusable as well. Had to switch from a 15’ MBP to the low-cost 13” with the old-school 500nit display.

exmadscientist 3y ago

Is it OLED displays themselves that bother you, or the truly horrid subpixel arrangements they use on phones? I love my LG OLED TV, with a full matrix (RGBW at every pixel). Phones, using something like PenTile, usually have half the number of red and blue subpixels, and in funny arrangements at that. Phone OLED displays make my eyes hurt, especially when anything is scrolling.

novok 3y ago
Is that the same with iPhones too?
- Miraste 3y ago
  Yes it is. Deranged subpixel arrangements aren't an inherent feature of OLEDs, but I believe they're easier to manufacture so they're used in everything. The only OLED product I remember having normal RGB stripe pixels was the original PSVR, and that was dropped for the PSVR 2. Samsung especially likes to mess with this, these days they are using triangular pixels for some reason.
starky 3y ago
Pentile is a pox on the entire phone industry that they use to justify using crappy low resolution displays under the guise of something higher resolution. "1080p" Pentile is really like an 880p RGB matrix display.

Dylan16807 3y ago

Some OLEDs don't use PWM, and some PWM fast enough not to cause problems. Also badly driven LCD backlights can flicker badly too.

Acrobatic_Road 3y ago

I'm not sure how OLED can give you a headache, but not an LCD.

noobermin 3y ago

My wife has issues with bright screens, for her, matte coatings/films are a lifesaver. Have you tried those?