4 ms·

The UK shot itself in the foot hard with Brexit, and has become a quite undesirable place for many for that reason. Doesn't mean that the US is necessarily doin

The UK shot itself in the foot hard with Brexit, and has become a quite undesirable place for many for that reason. Doesn't mean that the US is necessarily doing great.

adventured 3y ago
Which part of the US? It's so dramatically different from city to city, state to state. Software developer or equivalent income capable tech job, remote, university city/town. It's a fairly easy set-up (unless you're already very rooted somewhere). They're relatively inexpensive to live in (you can actually buy a real house at $100k per year!), and there are tons of safe choices (specifically with a low murder rate). Primary downside is far weaker food/nightlife/etc. vs what you get in major cities.
Lacerda69 3y ago
I still dont get why they did it. To me it was the most stupid thing any country did in my lifetime and am still mad about it.
- bugglebeetle 3y ago
  Because reactionaries successfully channeled discontent about declining material conditions into a reductive scapegoating of the EU and faced no meaningful opposition from what is now a center-right Labor Party, post Blair.
  - lovemenot 3y ago
    >> Because reactionaries successfully channeled discontent about declining material conditions into a reductive scapegoating of the EU and faced no meaningful opposition Yes. From the Left as well as the Right. Jeremy Corbyn is an example of the former. >> ... from what is now a center-right Labor Party, post Blair. Labour Party. It seems traditional party politics were not the primary factor. There were Leavers on both Left and Right. Centrists were less likely to be Leavers than those on the wings of their party. Demographic factors were more determining of a Leave vote than political affiliation: Age (older vs younger), region (England/Wales vs Scotland/N.Ireland), population density (rural vs urban), income (low earning vs high earning)
- ben_w 3y ago
  I suspect a big part of it was that voters didn't seriously consider that Boris Johnson might have been lying to them when he said it would be good. Exaggerate, embellish, etc., sure, but not outright lie.
- totallywrong 3y ago
  Cambridge Analytics, probably.
  - darkclouds 3y ago
    Clap for Carers during Covid was a national psychological experiment to measure conformity. Brexit was the closest you could get to resurrecting the Nazi party in the UK 60 years later as another conformity experiment. How do you measure conformity across a country? TV Set top boxes being paused at 8pm on Thursday, wifi connected devices seeing a weakening signal, social media posts. The internet is a security services and big businesses surveillance tool wet dream. Whats been interesting since is how various websites and their algorithms are being used to challenge your view point. What Eli Pariser highlighted in his Ted talk 12 years ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ofWFx525s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ofWFx525s) has grown to all the major US tech companies because if everyone has their nose in a device connected to some website, the state can control people in deniable spooky hacker ways. Remember intelligence is a cheaper and easier form of nipping problems in the bud before you have to puts boots on the ground, beit military boots or police boots, and at least here in the UK every element of the state is involved in surveillance, including the NHS and the educational system.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  The cultural urban rural divide became too large, and this phenomenon is playing out everywhere in the west.
onos 3y ago
From the lens of economics, EU doesn’t seem to be doing great either. https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9?accessToken=zwAF_nwmdS7YkdOArOB_OstAy9OZYIu0pE_Y2Q.MEUCIQDqd20j8Bp7E52sCxNWaD29v2uTVYeMpBa_9JagoLF9SwIgHTtbmFPW3ehJBTugrVEKluo0PQZJN-gsh_1Zyz7yeEQ&sharetype=gift&token=6e6efc45-196b-479f-aff3-2bdb8cb460fe https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd...
- ben_w 3y ago
  Sure, Brexit wasn't good for the EU either. It's a negative-sum event. That's in addition to the sudden shock from the invasion of Ukraine, making it politically necessary to switch fuel even at cost which your linked article starts with.
  - onos 3y ago
    My hot take is that there’s a lot of wonderful things about Europe but the economy is not one of them. And that’s by choice.
    - saiya-jin 3y ago
      Europe is vast, culturally much more diverse than US for better and worse. States have almost absolute independence, so they don't adapt to rules from above if they don't want to, there is no easy 'federal' lever to ie enforce laws everywhere, voting is democratic and representatives are very diverse, nothing like 2-party US system. Economy in the west is not that stellar mainly due to much more focus on social aspects, more paid time off, free education including universities, free healthcare, we take care of the poor, disabled etc. Of course none of this is free, we all pay for it. Economies in the east have their own issues, relatively poor and corrupt is never a good mix. Some people don't give a fuck about anybody else, its just me or just the closest ones, and for those US system looks much better and numbers alone do support it. Only to the point when societal issues hit back. Or you want to raise kids, and they want to study on university. Or not to worry about your health issues, which will inevitably come to all of us unless you die suddenly without any prior health issues. So yes its by choice, but I don't think most folks understand that choice, done for them in the past, without them having a say.
pessimizer 3y ago
What did Brexit do to the UK, and why is the rest of Europe nearly as bad off?
- ben_w 3y ago
  Brexit caused the UK to not be in the free trade area commonly called the EU, which meant that the EU didn't have convenient trade with the UK and the UK didn't have convenient trade with the EU. A global pandemic happened simultaneously with this.
  - inamorty 3y ago
    And an energy crisis.
WalterBright 3y ago
Free markets are always good for prosperity. Trade barriers, not so good.
- duhast 3y ago
  Citation needed.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    What happened to Putin's economy when we decided that we'd protect the Russian economy from foreign competition.
    - ianai 3y ago
      Importantly, it’s lack of trade barriers but all the rest of the mix, too. Ie if one part of a bilateral trade deal doesn’t honor IP rights of the other side there’s problems. Also linking countries with hugely different wage levels can be destabilizing to the more developed. Those factors probably could have been mitigated.
  - JimBright 3y ago
    here you go. Enjoy! https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/222886783/2003-cessna-citation-x-jet-aircraft https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/222886783/2003-c...

The UK shot itself in the foot hard with Brexit, and has become a quite undesirable place for many for that reason. Doesn't mean that the US is necessarily doing great.

adventured 3y ago

Which part of the US? It's so dramatically different from city to city, state to state. Software developer or equivalent income capable tech job, remote, university city/town. It's a fairly easy set-up (unless you're already very rooted somewhere). They're relatively inexpensive to live in (you can actually buy a real house at $100k per year!), and there are tons of safe choices (specifically with a low murder rate). Primary downside is far weaker food/nightlife/etc. vs what you get in major cities.

Lacerda69 3y ago

I still dont get why they did it. To me it was the most stupid thing any country did in my lifetime and am still mad about it.

bugglebeetle 3y ago
Because reactionaries successfully channeled discontent about declining material conditions into a reductive scapegoating of the EU and faced no meaningful opposition from what is now a center-right Labor Party, post Blair.
- lovemenot 3y ago
  >> Because reactionaries successfully channeled discontent about declining material conditions into a reductive scapegoating of the EU and faced no meaningful opposition Yes. From the Left as well as the Right. Jeremy Corbyn is an example of the former. >> ... from what is now a center-right Labor Party, post Blair. Labour Party. It seems traditional party politics were not the primary factor. There were Leavers on both Left and Right. Centrists were less likely to be Leavers than those on the wings of their party. Demographic factors were more determining of a Leave vote than political affiliation: Age (older vs younger), region (England/Wales vs Scotland/N.Ireland), population density (rural vs urban), income (low earning vs high earning)
ben_w 3y ago
I suspect a big part of it was that voters didn't seriously consider that Boris Johnson might have been lying to them when he said it would be good. Exaggerate, embellish, etc., sure, but not outright lie.
totallywrong 3y ago
Cambridge Analytics, probably.
- darkclouds 3y ago
  Clap for Carers during Covid was a national psychological experiment to measure conformity. Brexit was the closest you could get to resurrecting the Nazi party in the UK 60 years later as another conformity experiment. How do you measure conformity across a country? TV Set top boxes being paused at 8pm on Thursday, wifi connected devices seeing a weakening signal, social media posts. The internet is a security services and big businesses surveillance tool wet dream. Whats been interesting since is how various websites and their algorithms are being used to challenge your view point. What Eli Pariser highlighted in his Ted talk 12 years ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ofWFx525s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ofWFx525s) has grown to all the major US tech companies because if everyone has their nose in a device connected to some website, the state can control people in deniable spooky hacker ways. Remember intelligence is a cheaper and easier form of nipping problems in the bud before you have to puts boots on the ground, beit military boots or police boots, and at least here in the UK every element of the state is involved in surveillance, including the NHS and the educational system.
mensetmanusman 3y ago
The cultural urban rural divide became too large, and this phenomenon is playing out everywhere in the west.

onos 3y ago

From the lens of economics, EU doesn’t seem to be doing great either. https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9?accessToken=zwAF_nwmdS7YkdOArOB_OstAy9OZYIu0pE_Y2Q.MEUCIQDqd20j8Bp7E52sCxNWaD29v2uTVYeMpBa_9JagoLF9SwIgHTtbmFPW3ehJBTugrVEKluo0PQZJN-gsh_1Zyz7yeEQ&sharetype=gift&token=6e6efc45-196b-479f-aff3-2bdb8cb460fe https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd...

ben_w 3y ago
Sure, Brexit wasn't good for the EU either. It's a negative-sum event. That's in addition to the sudden shock from the invasion of Ukraine, making it politically necessary to switch fuel even at cost which your linked article starts with.
- onos 3y ago
  My hot take is that there’s a lot of wonderful things about Europe but the economy is not one of them. And that’s by choice.
  - saiya-jin 3y ago
    Europe is vast, culturally much more diverse than US for better and worse. States have almost absolute independence, so they don't adapt to rules from above if they don't want to, there is no easy 'federal' lever to ie enforce laws everywhere, voting is democratic and representatives are very diverse, nothing like 2-party US system. Economy in the west is not that stellar mainly due to much more focus on social aspects, more paid time off, free education including universities, free healthcare, we take care of the poor, disabled etc. Of course none of this is free, we all pay for it. Economies in the east have their own issues, relatively poor and corrupt is never a good mix. Some people don't give a fuck about anybody else, its just me or just the closest ones, and for those US system looks much better and numbers alone do support it. Only to the point when societal issues hit back. Or you want to raise kids, and they want to study on university. Or not to worry about your health issues, which will inevitably come to all of us unless you die suddenly without any prior health issues. So yes its by choice, but I don't think most folks understand that choice, done for them in the past, without them having a say.

pessimizer 3y ago

What did Brexit do to the UK, and why is the rest of Europe nearly as bad off?

ben_w 3y ago
Brexit caused the UK to not be in the free trade area commonly called the EU, which meant that the EU didn't have convenient trade with the UK and the UK didn't have convenient trade with the EU. A global pandemic happened simultaneously with this.
- inamorty 3y ago
  And an energy crisis.

WalterBright 3y ago

Free markets are always good for prosperity. Trade barriers, not so good.

duhast 3y ago
Citation needed.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  What happened to Putin's economy when we decided that we'd protect the Russian economy from foreign competition.
  - ianai 3y ago
    Importantly, it’s lack of trade barriers but all the rest of the mix, too. Ie if one part of a bilateral trade deal doesn’t honor IP rights of the other side there’s problems. Also linking countries with hugely different wage levels can be destabilizing to the more developed. Those factors probably could have been mitigated.
- JimBright 3y ago
  here you go. Enjoy! https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/222886783/2003-cessna-citation-x-jet-aircraft https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/222886783/2003-c...