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My 2c, we live in a society where college education matters to people. You can take a year off and learn React or just get an internship and make money. I had

My 2c, we live in a society where college education matters to people. You can take a year off and learn React or just get an internship and make money. I had 6 internships, some paid > $50/hr. Before this, I almost dropped my CS degree for boot camp and glad I didn’t. There is no shortcut. There is a mix of luck and grinding. You have 30+ years of work ahead of you. Finish this 1 milestone to make the initial start easier. How? Leetcode for 3 months, Network, interview and work while studying. You will have insane experiences. I saw firmware at big tech, security at startups and science at big oil. Things compound even if it feels slow.

the_only_law 3y ago
> There is no shortcut. If I’ve learned anything, this is it. I entered the field without formal education, mostly because realities of the time, though I had been programming for years prior and done some light freelance work which probably gave me some advantage. Later on, this gave the the confidence (arrogance?) to believe I could “hack” my way around all sorts of bureaucracies, but I quickly realized how wrong that was. I regret not completing any post secondary education and unfortunately the way the education system is designed, at least here in the US, it just gets more and more expensive the further you are from the typical student demographic. That being said, I don’t see anything implying the OP isn’t interested in completing a degree, just that they want to take a short break. Unless they’re particularly skilled, I do think that continuing their education will lead to much more and more interesting opportunities.
- travisjungroth 3y ago
  > There is no shortcut. My experience has been the opposite, with a slight caveat. There are tons of shortcuts, there’s just not a shortcut to everywhere. I don’t think you can hack your way into being a tenured math professor. But, is that the only thing that will make you happy? There’s certainly much shorter paths if you’re willing to give up some details. Maybe it’s that you want to do a lot of math and teach it sometimes. Lots of shortcuts there. Shortcuts also often end up being long cuts. Ten years of experience to save four years of college. But it’s sort of like taking a shortcut through the woods. Maybe the nicer path is worth it. When it does end up being shorter, and this is the first piece of advice for any shortcutters reading, is don’t get greedy. The savings are often huge, but maybe not huge huge. I believe you can learn the relevant career training most 4 year degrees provide in less than a year. Universities offer much more than skill training, that’s part of why this is possible. But, you can almost never do it in 4 months. Second tip is beware of shortcut salesmen! Part of the reason you’re getting a good deal is you’re spending your own agency to strike a path. So much of the value of any course for students is being told be here, at this time, and read this. If they didn’t have that, they’d never finish. If you don’t need that, you can go fast and pay less. With a shortcut salesman, the numbers don’t add up the same. (Combine points 1 and 2 for a strong skepticism of career boot camps of any type.) This is all just based on my own life and what I’ve seen around me. I’m now working a job that people told me wasn’t possible without a degree when I was a kid, but it worked out.
  - the_only_law 3y ago
    > I believe you can learn the relevant career training most 4 year degrees provide in less than a year. I’m not quite sure about this. I do believe that with the internet, a lot of information is available and you can indeed learn a lot, but there’s a reason that online degrees outside of CS tend to be “useless” degrees. I can read about, say, biology all day and learn a lot, but there’s all sorts of expensive equipment that gatekeeps a lot of “doing” (which IMO is an important part of learning). Ditto for many scientific or engineering fields outside CS. The only reason I was able to get into software was because computers were mostly ubiquitous in the public by the time I started. Also some knowledge is still gatekept or paywalled by universities, for example see the recent post about the guy hunting for the origins of that obscure Unicode character. I’m sure somewhere, there are prodigies who can manage, but for Joe Shmoe in most fields, it seems to matter more what letters they have next to their education that what knowledge they have in their head. Though I suppose we’re getting a hit off topic.
    - travisjungroth 3y ago
      The caveats in my sentence are necessary. By “most” I mean >50%. There are tons of counterexamples. Online degrees fall under shortcut salesmen. The problem with them isn’t so much access to equipment. It’s that for so many degrees, the point isn’t skill training. MBA is an easy example, where it’s largely networking. There’s also something there about soft skills training that doesn’t do well online (but that doesn’t mean it only works in university). So you take the skills training, which is 10% of the value. Rip out everything else and charge 30%. It seems like you’re getting a good deal, but you’re not. If you tie this all together (and maybe this is on topic for OP) it is very useful to pick apart why you are doing something. An MBA just for skill improvement is foolish. Thinking you’ll get the benefits of a Harvard MBA by reading books alone is also foolish. If you pick apart your reasons, you will more accurately decide what to do. Maybe it’s the MBA, maybe it’s books, maybe it’s joining a professional organization and networking hard. A huge hack is realizing when you can give up signaling and external motivation. So many people do that by default when they don’t need it, usually as continuing education. A second undergraduate degree is usually (>50%) a really bad idea. An example I did for myself was hiring a statistics tutor. I have no need for accreditation. I’m already a software engineer on an analysis tools team at Netflix. Focusing 100% on “get better at stats” lead to me reading two books and hiring a tutor in Poland for $30/hr who normally advises PhD candidates. I improved very quickly at exactly what was relevant for me, for very cheap. It was way better than if I had taken a course somewhere. I saved 80% of my time and money in exchange for having nothing to put on LinkedIn about it. But I’m also planning on coauthoring a paper at some point, so that’s the other side of the hack.
randomdata 3y ago
There is no shortcut to getting a degree, but maybe that is not really what he wants and has only confused it with his true desire? He suggests that what he really wants is skills. There is, indeed, a shortcut to gaining skills: Start doing.
- doublemint2202 3y ago
  Currently doing. Seeking advice how to potentially continue doing but for a year abroad while working. Less about college vs. not college. (Though I'm appreciating these conversations too.)

the_only_law 3y ago

> There is no shortcut. If I’ve learned anything, this is it. I entered the field without formal education, mostly because realities of the time, though I had been programming for years prior and done some light freelance work which probably gave me some advantage. Later on, this gave the the confidence (arrogance?) to believe I could “hack” my way around all sorts of bureaucracies, but I quickly realized how wrong that was. I regret not completing any post secondary education and unfortunately the way the education system is designed, at least here in the US, it just gets more and more expensive the further you are from the typical student demographic. That being said, I don’t see anything implying the OP isn’t interested in completing a degree, just that they want to take a short break. Unless they’re particularly skilled, I do think that continuing their education will lead to much more and more interesting opportunities.

travisjungroth 3y ago
> There is no shortcut. My experience has been the opposite, with a slight caveat. There are tons of shortcuts, there’s just not a shortcut to everywhere. I don’t think you can hack your way into being a tenured math professor. But, is that the only thing that will make you happy? There’s certainly much shorter paths if you’re willing to give up some details. Maybe it’s that you want to do a lot of math and teach it sometimes. Lots of shortcuts there. Shortcuts also often end up being long cuts. Ten years of experience to save four years of college. But it’s sort of like taking a shortcut through the woods. Maybe the nicer path is worth it. When it does end up being shorter, and this is the first piece of advice for any shortcutters reading, is don’t get greedy. The savings are often huge, but maybe not huge huge. I believe you can learn the relevant career training most 4 year degrees provide in less than a year. Universities offer much more than skill training, that’s part of why this is possible. But, you can almost never do it in 4 months. Second tip is beware of shortcut salesmen! Part of the reason you’re getting a good deal is you’re spending your own agency to strike a path. So much of the value of any course for students is being told be here, at this time, and read this. If they didn’t have that, they’d never finish. If you don’t need that, you can go fast and pay less. With a shortcut salesman, the numbers don’t add up the same. (Combine points 1 and 2 for a strong skepticism of career boot camps of any type.) This is all just based on my own life and what I’ve seen around me. I’m now working a job that people told me wasn’t possible without a degree when I was a kid, but it worked out.
- the_only_law 3y ago
  > I believe you can learn the relevant career training most 4 year degrees provide in less than a year. I’m not quite sure about this. I do believe that with the internet, a lot of information is available and you can indeed learn a lot, but there’s a reason that online degrees outside of CS tend to be “useless” degrees. I can read about, say, biology all day and learn a lot, but there’s all sorts of expensive equipment that gatekeeps a lot of “doing” (which IMO is an important part of learning). Ditto for many scientific or engineering fields outside CS. The only reason I was able to get into software was because computers were mostly ubiquitous in the public by the time I started. Also some knowledge is still gatekept or paywalled by universities, for example see the recent post about the guy hunting for the origins of that obscure Unicode character. I’m sure somewhere, there are prodigies who can manage, but for Joe Shmoe in most fields, it seems to matter more what letters they have next to their education that what knowledge they have in their head. Though I suppose we’re getting a hit off topic.
  - travisjungroth 3y ago
    The caveats in my sentence are necessary. By “most” I mean >50%. There are tons of counterexamples. Online degrees fall under shortcut salesmen. The problem with them isn’t so much access to equipment. It’s that for so many degrees, the point isn’t skill training. MBA is an easy example, where it’s largely networking. There’s also something there about soft skills training that doesn’t do well online (but that doesn’t mean it only works in university). So you take the skills training, which is 10% of the value. Rip out everything else and charge 30%. It seems like you’re getting a good deal, but you’re not. If you tie this all together (and maybe this is on topic for OP) it is very useful to pick apart why you are doing something. An MBA just for skill improvement is foolish. Thinking you’ll get the benefits of a Harvard MBA by reading books alone is also foolish. If you pick apart your reasons, you will more accurately decide what to do. Maybe it’s the MBA, maybe it’s books, maybe it’s joining a professional organization and networking hard. A huge hack is realizing when you can give up signaling and external motivation. So many people do that by default when they don’t need it, usually as continuing education. A second undergraduate degree is usually (>50%) a really bad idea. An example I did for myself was hiring a statistics tutor. I have no need for accreditation. I’m already a software engineer on an analysis tools team at Netflix. Focusing 100% on “get better at stats” lead to me reading two books and hiring a tutor in Poland for $30/hr who normally advises PhD candidates. I improved very quickly at exactly what was relevant for me, for very cheap. It was way better than if I had taken a course somewhere. I saved 80% of my time and money in exchange for having nothing to put on LinkedIn about it. But I’m also planning on coauthoring a paper at some point, so that’s the other side of the hack.

randomdata 3y ago

There is no shortcut to getting a degree, but maybe that is not really what he wants and has only confused it with his true desire? He suggests that what he really wants is skills. There is, indeed, a shortcut to gaining skills: Start doing.

doublemint2202 3y ago
Currently doing. Seeking advice how to potentially continue doing but for a year abroad while working. Less about college vs. not college. (Though I'm appreciating these conversations too.)