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As a tech person, I’m failing to see what’s wrong with cutting bloat? I’ve always felt much more productive on smaller teams, and while not quite at the scale o

As a tech person, I’m failing to see what’s wrong with cutting bloat? I’ve always felt much more productive on smaller teams, and while not quite at the scale of Twitter, have worked on teams with 10s to 100s of millions of active users with only 10 or so technical staff and another 10 or so business and managers. That team got increasingly less efficient as it grew towards 50 or more people over several years. I don’t really have an opinion about Musk one way or another (except coincidental his involvement in the 90s with Rocket Science Games), but I’m unsure where the animus has originated. For example, I don’t care much for Bill Gates because under his watch Microsoft was relentless at putting competitors, several of which I was a fan, out of business and his foundation funding experiments gone wrong in poor counties. Besides outspoken political stances and firing people, what has harm has Musk caused?

Eumenes 3y ago
I think its cause Musk is the richest person in the world (eat the rich, etc), isn't lock step with popular narratives, and engaged in the culture war stuff. "Cutting bloat" doesn't sound very empathetic either and is "anti-worker/pro management", thus the left leaning tech crowd disapproves. In his oppositions perspective, companies have an ethnical obligation to doll out corporate welfare and support causes they believe in. Musk isn't really into that. tl;dr - he's a Capitalist
- jonhohle 3y ago
  > cutting bloat There’s lots of different ways to put it, and getting fired sucks regardless of the circumstances. Organizational bloat is a common phrase for groups that are larger than their utility, it doesn’t reflect on the individuals in that group in any way (except for maybe executives and middle managers who allowed it to get that way). If a private company is continuing operations to the satisfaction of its owner without a portion of its employees, whose prerogative is it but the owner’s? If I hire someone to do work on my house or do my taxes I expect them to do the agreed upon work for the agreed upon price. What right would those people have to complain about (or worse, demand) me not putting them on retainer for work I don’t need? The only one in a position to determine corporate welfare is the one who writes the checks, whether you like that person or not.
  - Eumenes 3y ago
    I agree. Over hiring in tech has been an ongoing trend. Playing devils advocate, paying for a service as an individual (like taxes or home improvement work) varies from employing people as a company. Even more reason to take hiring seriously because it has financial consequences. Having been part of many conversations surrounding hiring and headcount planning, its very messy and can change week to week. Even more reason to stay lean, and perhaps leverage contractors/consultants for busy periods or bursts of work.
breckenedge 3y ago
“Cutting bloat” isn’t the only thing going on here. That happens regularly and we have laws to regulate the process. > I’m unsure where the animus has originated He didn’t pay his workers what they were due in their employment contracts. Is it moral for a multi-billionaire to not pay his workers what they agreed upon? It’s too bad that labor laws are so weak in this country that this isn’t considered a crime with real jail time.
- jonhohle 3y ago
  That’s the current story and I completely agree that employees must be made whole. However, the disdain for Musk started long before his acquisition of Twitter.
  - Jcowell 3y ago
    Probably stayed when he called a guy rescuing kids a Pedofile.
  - pixl97 3y ago
    The problem here is you think the current story is the start of his abuse, this crap has been documented for years.
  - systemvoltage 3y ago
    It’s ideological and not rational. Once you understand that, everything makes sense.
  - breckenedge 3y ago
    If it’s animus now, might it be possible that people were too impressed with him 10 years ago? Maybe building him up into something that he wasn’t, then enjoying seeing him fall from ”grace”? Folks really love that kind of story, and Musk seems happy to play the part.
    - jonhohle 3y ago
      That’s certainly reasonable, and I’m hearing enough anecdotes that I wouldn’t have grouped them together to form an unfavorable opinion (or at least no less favorable than Larry Ellison, Richard Bronson, or any of the other socialite billionaires).
michaelt 3y ago
A lot of people here on HN seem to have an almost religious belief that large corporations are rational, lean and efficient at every level. If you believe everything has already been cut to the bone, or pay for themselves, or are vital to the company's long-term strategy - you might believe there isn't any bloat to cut. After all, what rational company would have 80% of the staff doing nothing of importance?

Eumenes 3y ago

I think its cause Musk is the richest person in the world (eat the rich, etc), isn't lock step with popular narratives, and engaged in the culture war stuff. "Cutting bloat" doesn't sound very empathetic either and is "anti-worker/pro management", thus the left leaning tech crowd disapproves. In his oppositions perspective, companies have an ethnical obligation to doll out corporate welfare and support causes they believe in. Musk isn't really into that. tl;dr - he's a Capitalist

jonhohle 3y ago
> cutting bloat There’s lots of different ways to put it, and getting fired sucks regardless of the circumstances. Organizational bloat is a common phrase for groups that are larger than their utility, it doesn’t reflect on the individuals in that group in any way (except for maybe executives and middle managers who allowed it to get that way). If a private company is continuing operations to the satisfaction of its owner without a portion of its employees, whose prerogative is it but the owner’s? If I hire someone to do work on my house or do my taxes I expect them to do the agreed upon work for the agreed upon price. What right would those people have to complain about (or worse, demand) me not putting them on retainer for work I don’t need? The only one in a position to determine corporate welfare is the one who writes the checks, whether you like that person or not.
- Eumenes 3y ago
  I agree. Over hiring in tech has been an ongoing trend. Playing devils advocate, paying for a service as an individual (like taxes or home improvement work) varies from employing people as a company. Even more reason to take hiring seriously because it has financial consequences. Having been part of many conversations surrounding hiring and headcount planning, its very messy and can change week to week. Even more reason to stay lean, and perhaps leverage contractors/consultants for busy periods or bursts of work.

breckenedge 3y ago

“Cutting bloat” isn’t the only thing going on here. That happens regularly and we have laws to regulate the process. > I’m unsure where the animus has originated He didn’t pay his workers what they were due in their employment contracts. Is it moral for a multi-billionaire to not pay his workers what they agreed upon? It’s too bad that labor laws are so weak in this country that this isn’t considered a crime with real jail time.

jonhohle 3y ago
That’s the current story and I completely agree that employees must be made whole. However, the disdain for Musk started long before his acquisition of Twitter.
- Jcowell 3y ago
  Probably stayed when he called a guy rescuing kids a Pedofile.
- pixl97 3y ago
  The problem here is you think the current story is the start of his abuse, this crap has been documented for years.
- systemvoltage 3y ago
  It’s ideological and not rational. Once you understand that, everything makes sense.
- breckenedge 3y ago
  If it’s animus now, might it be possible that people were too impressed with him 10 years ago? Maybe building him up into something that he wasn’t, then enjoying seeing him fall from ”grace”? Folks really love that kind of story, and Musk seems happy to play the part.
  - jonhohle 3y ago
    That’s certainly reasonable, and I’m hearing enough anecdotes that I wouldn’t have grouped them together to form an unfavorable opinion (or at least no less favorable than Larry Ellison, Richard Bronson, or any of the other socialite billionaires).

michaelt 3y ago

A lot of people here on HN seem to have an almost religious belief that large corporations are rational, lean and efficient at every level. If you believe everything has already been cut to the bone, or pay for themselves, or are vital to the company's long-term strategy - you might believe there isn't any bloat to cut. After all, what rational company would have 80% of the staff doing nothing of importance?