4 ms·

I'm not sure what Meta or the fediverse has to gain by attempting to get in bed with each other -- a lot of people on the fediverse are extremely anti-big-biz,

I'm not sure what Meta or the fediverse has to gain by attempting to get in bed with each other -- a lot of people on the fediverse are extremely anti-big-biz, and extremely anti-meta in particular. IMO all Meta has to do to succeed here is to create a better managed Twitter. They don't need to get all fancy with it by trying to bolt on fediverse compatibility. Disclaimer: I work at Meta, but not on IG or Project 92.

marcinzm 3y ago
I figure they’re making some type of long term embrace/extend/extinguish play against a potential competitor to their twitter plans.
refulgentis 3y ago
- What is IG? If instagram, what relevance does it have to the Fediverse stuff? - What is Project 92? - When referring to “what Meta has to do to succeed here”, what is here? - If it’s federated Twitter, what makes it “just” in the sentence that “Meta just has to…”? - if Meta just does Twitter-but-well-run, wouldn’t that run counter to federation?
- detaro 3y ago
  https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/8/23754304/instagram-meta-twitter-competitor-threads-activitypub https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/8/23754304/instagram-meta-tw...
- pierat 3y ago
  That's the point: we just don't know what Facebook/Meta is planning. However, we DO know that Eugen Rochko signed the NDA with Facebook/Meta from https://433.world/@Yuvalne/110566872225488614 https://433.world/@Yuvalne/110566872225488614 (screen cap of deleted post). Eugen Rochko is the creator of Mastodon. Text of screen capture: "screenshot of a partial Mastodon thread from Tusky. @gargron@mastodon.social: @dansup I think it’s important to understand what they’re working on and how it fits with what we’re doing. Even if an NDA is required, knowing is better than not knowing. @dansup@mastodon.social: @Gargron Yeah that's a good point, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt! The fediverse could really use that type of growth, and it's a good sign that they are willing to have discussions with fediverse stakeholders."
  - rvz 3y ago
    So it has been admitted with a very predictable outcome [0] that the main instance (mastodon.social) is now corrupted, compromised and has capitulated into Meta's NDA and will get even more centralized. This sounds more like Meta used NDAs on the largest instances on Mastodon to not instance-level ban them once they get Instagram on ActivityPub which of course means that Meta is now in control of most of Mastodon already (the ones that have the most users) So essentially, Meta has captured another social network without trying. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36012434 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36012434
    - jsnell 3y ago
      What's the mechanism by which an NDA translates to control of Mastodon instances? Because that's totally outside the scope of a normal NDA.
- notacoward 3y ago
  Project 92 is Meta's rumored Twitter-killer, further rumored to be based (in some part at least) on Instagram or the Instagram codebase.
realitythreek 3y ago
Your assessment of Meta’s motives seems accurate, but tbh that’s why I don’t use Meta’s products and mistrust their involvement in the Fediverse.
rsynnott 3y ago
The thing about Facebook is that it is Facebook. It lacks credibility. There are a good few people on Mastodon who produce content that Facebook users might want to consume, but would be leery of actually using Facebook, or Facebook’s hypothetical Twitter-y thing. And, assuming that Twitter’s decline continues (I’d view this as inevitable at this point, ymmv) there’ll be an ongoing stream of people, many of whom won’t want a Facebook property. Facebook doesn’t seem to have had great success in the past in bootstrapping new social networks off its user base (see the dating thing, the classifieds thing, etc); it might want to try something new. It would arguably be difficult for FacebookTwitter to be _the_ new Twitter (if such a thing emerges at all); the brand is too damaged. Being _part_ of the replacement might be their best realistic option. This is very much the charitable view, btw; “Facebook wants exposure to content that they’re unlikely to get _on_ Facebook, wants to work out rules of engagement” (if ActivityPub-y FacebookTwitter launches without ground rules, everyone is just going to defederate from that pretty quickly). You can see more cynical views elsewhere in the thread.

marcinzm 3y ago

I figure they’re making some type of long term embrace/extend/extinguish play against a potential competitor to their twitter plans.

refulgentis 3y ago

- What is IG? If instagram, what relevance does it have to the Fediverse stuff? - What is Project 92? - When referring to “what Meta has to do to succeed here”, what is here? - If it’s federated Twitter, what makes it “just” in the sentence that “Meta just has to…”? - if Meta just does Twitter-but-well-run, wouldn’t that run counter to federation?

detaro 3y ago
https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/8/23754304/instagram-meta-twitter-competitor-threads-activitypub https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/8/23754304/instagram-meta-tw...
pierat 3y ago
That's the point: we just don't know what Facebook/Meta is planning. However, we DO know that Eugen Rochko signed the NDA with Facebook/Meta from https://433.world/@Yuvalne/110566872225488614 https://433.world/@Yuvalne/110566872225488614 (screen cap of deleted post). Eugen Rochko is the creator of Mastodon. Text of screen capture: "screenshot of a partial Mastodon thread from Tusky. @gargron@mastodon.social: @dansup I think it’s important to understand what they’re working on and how it fits with what we’re doing. Even if an NDA is required, knowing is better than not knowing. @dansup@mastodon.social: @Gargron Yeah that's a good point, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt! The fediverse could really use that type of growth, and it's a good sign that they are willing to have discussions with fediverse stakeholders."
- rvz 3y ago
  So it has been admitted with a very predictable outcome [0] that the main instance (mastodon.social) is now corrupted, compromised and has capitulated into Meta's NDA and will get even more centralized. This sounds more like Meta used NDAs on the largest instances on Mastodon to not instance-level ban them once they get Instagram on ActivityPub which of course means that Meta is now in control of most of Mastodon already (the ones that have the most users) So essentially, Meta has captured another social network without trying. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36012434 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36012434
  - jsnell 3y ago
    What's the mechanism by which an NDA translates to control of Mastodon instances? Because that's totally outside the scope of a normal NDA.
notacoward 3y ago
Project 92 is Meta's rumored Twitter-killer, further rumored to be based (in some part at least) on Instagram or the Instagram codebase.

realitythreek 3y ago

Your assessment of Meta’s motives seems accurate, but tbh that’s why I don’t use Meta’s products and mistrust their involvement in the Fediverse.

rsynnott 3y ago

The thing about Facebook is that it is Facebook. It lacks credibility. There are a good few people on Mastodon who produce content that Facebook users might want to consume, but would be leery of actually using Facebook, or Facebook’s hypothetical Twitter-y thing. And, assuming that Twitter’s decline continues (I’d view this as inevitable at this point, ymmv) there’ll be an ongoing stream of people, many of whom won’t want a Facebook property. Facebook doesn’t seem to have had great success in the past in bootstrapping new social networks off its user base (see the dating thing, the classifieds thing, etc); it might want to try something new. It would arguably be difficult for FacebookTwitter to be _the_ new Twitter (if such a thing emerges at all); the brand is too damaged. Being _part_ of the replacement might be their best realistic option. This is very much the charitable view, btw; “Facebook wants exposure to content that they’re unlikely to get _on_ Facebook, wants to work out rules of engagement” (if ActivityPub-y FacebookTwitter launches without ground rules, everyone is just going to defederate from that pretty quickly). You can see more cynical views elsewhere in the thread.