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Texas rules requiring water breaks for construction workers will be nullified
- paulryanrogers 3y agoQuite a horrific solution to a concern about variance among local governments. Perhaps they truly believe the market will solve work concerns / deaths, despite past evidence that they get brushed aside.
- postpawl 3y agoAbbott wants major Texas cities to have as little control as possible since they’re mostly majority democrat. Doubt they’re even thinking about markets solving problems.
- technofiend 3y agoCorrect. It's a byproduct of a so-called Death Star law: https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/texas-death-star-house-bill-could-kill-local-control-worker-housing-protections/ https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/texas-death-star-house... This is meant to disempower local jurisdictions which pass laws contrary to Republican aims. Everything from Harris County's motor voter law that let people drive through vote to DAs saying they won't enforce state laws. See also a law that targets elections in counties over a certain size, of which there is only one and leans Democrat. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/28/us/texas-voting-laws-harris-county.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/28/us/texas-voting-laws-harr...
- jmclnx 3y agoMore than that, the Real Market (Earth) may solve this issue for good, when Texas regularly hits Wet Bulb Temp due to Climate Change, people will start heading north. So no more Texas. This is crazy, I am sure the Lawyers are now looking closely to Case Law to e ready when the suite start flying.
- bequanna 3y agoThis is pretty strong conjecture that is the exact opposite of what is currently happening. If Texas is such a terrible place to live, why are so many people moving there?
- bobthepanda 3y agoWet bulb temperature would be when the climate gets so hot that perspiration will not cool the body down. It’s a real risk in coming years that will result in death, particularly if it combines with peak AC load to black out a grid for several days. Texas is not there yet, but IIRC this has already happened in India and parts of the Middle East. https://www.kxan.com/news/national-news/what-is-a-wet-bulb-temperature-and-why-is-it-so-important-this-week/amp/ https://www.kxan.com/news/national-news/what-is-a-wet-bulb-t...
- Hemospectrum 3y agoHeads up: As your link explains, "wet bulb temperature" refers to the method by which the heat is measured, not to the threshold where it becomes intolerable for humans. That threshold is around 90F at 100% humidity, but the actual weather conditions can yield a wet bulb temperature much higher or lower than that.
- bequanna 3y agoSure, I follow you but why would this start killing people in mass? Wet bulb temp is technically “deadly” in Houston every year with relatively few deaths.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- amanaplanacanal 3y agoI think the scenario is: power fails so people no longer have AC. I know nothing about how likely that is.
- nonstopdev 3y agoThis would be interesting to see how it plays out and if the market solves this on its own. While a regulation and mandates usually requires an employer to keep extra records, cause confusion for a lot of smaller companies trying to comply based on each different governments rules, as well as generate more government costs to enforce, the Texas heat is nothing to mess with just as in many states in the south. I would think an employer who has crews working in the heat would want their crews to be rested and hydrated. Someone handing heavy machinery and passes out, or god forbid, dies on a job would crush that company and cause hell on the general costs of insurance. Also with the number of construction companies, ones that basically tell their staff they can’t drink water I would have to believe quickly will find no one will want to work for.
- Buttons840 3y ago> ones that basically tell their staff they can’t drink water I would have to believe quickly will find no one will want to work for I've never done something as difficult as construction, but I was a cashier, sanding still on concrete all day for 8 hours, no fun. I don't think anyone wanted to do that, but there they were doing it anyway. And there they still are every time I go to the store, no stool to sit on, standing still on concrete. Your belief seems to be that if people don't want to do a thing, they wont, but that doesn't seem to be true when I look around.
- bombcar 3y agoThere are very very few jobs that people actually want to do - and some places do provide stools. Aldi’s does and they’re notoriously famous for overworking their cashiers as much as they can. I’d expect to see stools at union grocery stories (but I don’t) so it must not be that big of a complaint. I have seen that almost all now have those padded floor things.
- MandieD 3y agoAldi probably does this because all grocery cashiers in Germany (home of Aldi) have seats at their registers, and are sitting most of the time. Aldi here also makes them do all sorts of jobs around the store when their registers aren’t needed, so I guess being able to sit at the register is a legal requirement.
- miga 3y agoAre all the workers insured?
- dbg31415 3y ago[flagged]
- lockhouse 3y agoHis competition last election was Beto O’Rourke, a guy who made gun control the biggest issue of his campaign…in Texas.
- dbg31415 3y agoYeah... Beto does tend to give the impression that he just likes to lose. Beto was Mayor of El Paso, where there was that horrible shooting a few years back. Beto really latched on to gun control. And I agree, like we need the most purple Democrat in Texas, or they won't stand a chance. It's hard to get the left motivated by a candidate that has any shot of winning. And the right just has to sort of default into a win... it's a tough spot. I really do appreciate that Beto keeps standing up to be a punching bag. But I do wish there was a way to make him a bit more moderate. Guns, abortion, immigration... they're all just issues that make Republicans show up to vote against a Democrat. Since there are more Republicans than Democrats, it'd be be better to not talk so much about those things I think... But meh, what do I know? It's not like the Democrats would let in a candidate who was silent or moderate on those issues... and if they won't make any concessions, it's pretty hard for Republicans to cross party lines for someone based on personality alone. Beto lost by 11%... that's not terrible terrible... but even if it was a 1% point loss he still wouldn't get a say in running the state. I don't know what the answer is, but I suspect if we wait 20 years things will be better. Do we have 20 years to wait? https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/11/08/us/elections/results-texas-governor.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/11/08/us/elections/...
- technofiend 3y agoA rapper named Big Pokey died today [1] after two outdoor concert performances: one in Baytown and the second in Beaumont. I'd cite the source but the original Twitter post of him collapsing on stage was taken down. He was a pretty big guy, so I doubt that helped. But in contrast even fit and healthy people being forced to work construction with no break is inhuman. There's no excuse for such brutality. [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/houston/comments/14ciker/rip_big_pokey/ https://old.reddit.com/r/houston/comments/14ciker/rip_big_po...
- mikeyouse 3y agoSane places have extremely strong OSHA-equivalent agencies with literal criminal penalties for managers whose employees are injured on the job due to site conditions or lack of proper training and safety equipment. I can’t believe anyone advocates for less. https://www.hrmonline.com.au/topics/health-wellbeing-and-safety/employer-jailed-workplace-death-mt-sheds/ https://www.hrmonline.com.au/topics/health-wellbeing-and-saf...
- thebradbain 3y agoAs a lifelong Texan who now lives in California— Texas has absolutely no problem overriding municipal and county governments, the biggest of which are solidly blue. It’s a pattern they’ve repeated for over 20 years, often more so as a show of force than anything that affects things at a state level: - Local “bag charges” and “bag bans” on non-reusable plastic bags at grocery stores were outlawed in 2018. - Anything that has to do with attempts at gun restrictions in cities (auditoriums/malls/etc) gets overridden every year. - Just this year, the state passed a law with explicit language exclusively targeting its biggest county, Harris County (Houston), disbanding its election commissioner position and that the state AG has the ability to re-call elections in the county if he believes there was “enough fraud”. There’s so much more, but “local control” is not a term which holds much water in Texas. The other side of the coin is that, unlike California, this philosophy is also reflected in Texas’ zoning codes, and as such it’s much easier and much more consistent across cities to build — developers in cities begin to bemoan when permits take more than 3 months in Texas cities, whereas in Los Angeles years would be the norm
- vb6sp6 3y ago[dead]
- bob1029 3y agoI am curious what your experience was like moving TX=>CA. I've been considering the same.
- ESTheComposer 3y agoDid the reverse after living in CA. The amount of homeless drugs and crime in the Bay made me immediately regret moving, but stayed for the $$$ for a bit. Texas does many stupid things but so does CA and on top of that CA is expensive as hell to live in
- flangola7 3y agoBetween being queer and having a trans daughter, I feel far less worried that the government will arbitrarily impoverish, imprison, or kill me, or kidnap my children. Or that one of the locals will take it upon themselves to do so. I don't care if the rent in Texas was negative.
- fwlr 3y agoThose mandatory water break laws confuse me. Is it because businesses are refusing to let their workers take water breaks? Or because workers don’t realize when they need a water break? I find it hard to believe either of those things are generally true*. *: Perhaps there are some outliers - businesses that genuinely slavedrive their workers, or workers that genuinely can’t tell when they’re about to die. But are those businesses or workers likely to pay much attention to these laws anyway?
- rightbyte 3y agoIn my experience many safety rules are there to force workers to do stuff they don't want to do. Like wear helmets or whatever. Management has to be quite bad before they are the weak link.
- avgcorrection 3y agoAnd this applies to drinking water?
- rightbyte 3y agoYes. I assume the workers are able to drink any time they want? "The law will nullify ordinances enacted by Austin in 2010 and Dallas in 2015 that established 10-minute breaks every four hours so that construction workers can drink water and protect themselves from the sun." Like, every 4th hour? You need to drink maybe every 15th minute if it is hot and you work with your body. I smell a forced water break to ensure people drink water. But I should be clear that I have no knowledge of Texas construction work conditions.
- throw0101a 3y ago> Yes. I assume the workers are able to drink any time they want? What about on the other end (i.e., peeing)? "14-hour days and no bathroom breaks: Amazon's overworked delivery drivers": * https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/mar/11/amazon-delivery-drivers-bathroom-breaks-unions https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/mar/11/amazon-de... "Amazon strikes: Workers claim their toilet breaks are timed": * https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64384287 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64384287 I wouldn't put it past some employers preventing water intake if water 'outtake' is a documented problem.
- denimnerd42 3y agoIs this specific regulation really an issue? I understand heat related deaths do occur but is it because they are not allowed water breaks every 4!! hours? If you're working out there in 115+ heat index like June, July, August, September bring you're going to need a water break every 20-40 minutes, especially decked out in full PPE. I don't see overseers out there driving these Hispanic laborers to work 8 hours straight. They can take a break whenever they want, after all who is going to stop them. They need the job done right? This seems like the type of regulation pushed by those who never have worked out in the heat before. Who in their right mind would even waste time passing a mandatory once every 4 hour water break? That's useless.
- getmeinrn 3y agoI agree the common sense around this issue seems to be lacking. I think this issue is more of a political lightning rod for those who "hate workers" vs those who "want government to control everything."
- ta1243 3y agoDo employers always pay for these breaks, or do they garnish wages?
- denimnerd42 3y agoI'm not some construction expert here in Texas but from what I observe most laborers are working under a sub contractor or levels of sub contractor and are usually paid a daily rate.
- BaseballPhysics 3y ago> I don't see overseers out there driving these Hispanic laborers to work 8 hours straight. Are you joking?
- whycombagator 3y agoI haven’t seen it either. Where have you seen or heard about it?
- tootallgavin 3y agoThe bill in question https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/88R/billtext/pdf/HB02127F.pdf https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/88R/billtext/pdf/HB02127F.... Maybe I didn't read it properly but water breaks are not under attack
- klyrs 3y agoThe bill imposes novel limitations on what regulations municipalities are allowed to enact/enforce. You won't find the impact of the bill in its text -- to find that, you'd need to read the municipal regulations that would be superceded. Mandatory water breaks (a paltry 10 minutes each 4 hours) are but one example.
- tootallgavin 3y agoHere is the Texas Workforce Commission on breaks https://efte.twc.texas.gov/d_breaks.html https://efte.twc.texas.gov/d_breaks.html "Rest or coffee breaks, defined as 20 minutes or less, are compensable hours worked under 29 C.F.R. 785.18, since they are regarded as being for the benefit of both the employer and the employee." This is 29 C.F.R. 785.18, a federal regulation https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/subtitle-B/chapter-V/subchapter-B/part-785/subpart-C/subject-group-ECFR3d1222debcd8ec6/section-785.18 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/subtitle-B/chapter-V/s...
- dbg31415 3y agoAlso... can we talk about how f'd it is that someone who wants smaller government would go out of his way to ban small local government from governing? "You're doing it wrong at the local level, let me run things at the state level... but that same logic doesn't apply to the federal government!" It takes some real mental hoolahooping to make that work.
- frob 3y agoIt's almost as if that whole "small goverment" line has been a canard the entire time
- m0llusk 3y agomaybe if we call them "freedom breaks" ???
- kthejoker2 3y agoOkay guys, focus on the real issue here, which is Texas state government is Republican, but every major Texas city is Democratic. So rural Texas bumpkins want to impose a rule of law on their economic engines (while conveniently decrying interference from federal agencies on things like policing, voting rights, LGBTQ discrimination, border policy, etc) This is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner, while the wolves cry about "big government" and having agendas forced on them.
- infamouscow 3y agoEconomic activity does not equate to political worth. Although cities may be the economic hubs it doesn't equate to the political worth or value of an individuals vote. Everyone regardless of where they live or their economic contribution should be entitled to an equal vote in a fair and democratic society. One of the original concerns about direct democracy is the potential it has to allow a majority of voters to trample the rights of minorities. This is why we have minority protections.
- teclordphrack2 3y ago[dead]
- Server6 3y agoThe problem is that Texas has been gerrymandered to the point that Democrats in the cities don't have an "an equal vote", and are being dictated to by what the see as rural rubes.
- kthejoker2 3y agoThanks for agreeing with me? The issue is city populations are the minority here. The laws they passed only apply to their cities. Their right to self govern is being overridden by the majority state legislature. You are literally arguing my point but you don't seem to understand whose protections are being trampled on by whom.
- taylodl 3y agoCities have more people and therefore have more votes. What Republicans have been doing is nullifying those votes. Meaning people living in rural areas have more voting power than people living in cities. It's both entertaining and annoying watching Republicans trying to defend this system.
- CodeTheInternet 3y agoI'm confused why there is even a law for this. Is there a law for bathroom breaks as well? Do t let any company treat you as less than a human being.
- Timon3 3y agoYes, there is, because companies would treat people as poorly as possible if it increases profits. Just look at the pee break situation at Amazon. Don't forget, companies kill people to increase their profits. There is nothing humane or good about our economy.