4 ms·

Am I the only one that thinks that it makes no sense to compare Dropbox and iCloud? Dropbox is glorified rsync, and, in my eyes, is great for syncing files bet

by cmelbye 15y ago

Am I the only one that thinks that it makes no sense to compare Dropbox and iCloud? Dropbox is glorified rsync, and, in my eyes, is great for syncing files between my laptops that still use a file management paradigm from 20+ years ago. iCloud abstracts files away from the user, so that the user doesn't need to worry about folders and extensions and filesystems. iCloud CAN do what Dropbox does, but it takes it so much further. Am I totally off base?

Dylan16807 15y ago
Dropbox can do what icloud does. Make one folder per app and hide file extensions in your os. I think the two services are very alike, the only real difference in which platforms are supported with full sync. Dropbox chooses desktops, icloud anything apple.
- potatolicious 15y ago
  Not true - one fundamental thing iCloud does that none of the synced-file services can do is seamless conflict resolution and offering devs an interface to do the same. If I create 10 Widgets in an app on my iPhone, and go to my iPad and create 10 more widgets, I expect that all 20 widgets be visible on both devices reasonably quickly. On Dropbox this is still a highly manual process, on iCloud this is handled behind the scenes and app devs have access to a (relatively sane, if still currently buggy) interface to make this possible. This is a huge use case, and part of why cloud sync is rarely as simple as downloading/uploading a file to a central source.
  - Dylan16807 15y ago
    While the conflict resolution is a nice thing, the burden of implementation lies almost entirely on the app developer, not icloud. The same code could easily trigger whenever Dropbox replaces the open file or adds a renamed conflicted version.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
Kylekramer 15y ago
I think you might be a little. I may be overestimating the average user, but I believe iCloud over-abstracts the filesystem. A normal office worker has a ton of files already. It may be messy, but the world at large at least have some sort of workflow they carved out over the years of using the typical user facing filesystem. I can't imagine most people know how to get these files onto their iOS devices using iCloud. My iOS addicted family certainly doesn't. I honestly don't even really get it. If properly presented by HTC/Dropbox/Android, it is a superior solution. Rather that trying to figure out what the user wants and often frustrating them with invisible restrictions, a Dropbox solution just powerfully augments what the normal person already does on a computer. Put all of your stuff here. Press on your file, you get presented with a series of apps that can work with your stuff. And when you are done, put it back in the box that magically keeps all of your stuff. And the stuff in this box will work with any application that can parse that particular file on your phone/tablet/laptop/work computer, not just on a certain subset of apps on a certain subset of devices.
usaar333 15y ago
Just because our file management paradigm is 20+ years old, is it so bad? When you have a "lot of crap", you want some sort of organization to it. Folders do this well; gmail-esque labels arguably better. I can't see how you can get away with "hiding files" themselves. In the end, a file can have multiple applications handle it (view, edit, etc.).. somewhere the files need to be visible. On another note, Dropbox offers plenty more features. It is among the easiest ways to share files with another. And it runs on almost every platform; I can't even comment much on iCloud as I lack OS/X or an iOS device.
- Cushman 15y ago
  Because our file management paradigm is 20+ years old and many people younger than 20 still don't grok files, yes, it is so bad.
- PeterWhittaker 15y ago
  We needed a file management paradigm because we couldn't simply say to the filing system "bring me the X file, the one about Y". Now we can. The machines have caught up to our need and we may now be lazy. I am 46. I have worked in IT long enough to remember having to be obsessively organized. Why? Because I had no choice. The machine could not help me. I have become lazy in my dotage. Why? Because the machine lets me. gmail search is so fast I no longer organize email - it simply isn't worth organizing. I enter criteria, I find my email. When I was organized, I would have to break my current flow to remember my organizational method - which morphed over time, good luck with that. find is now so fast - because of fast hardware - that I no longer even bother to try remembering where I filed things, I just type fndi criterion (fndi, he said? function fndi () { tgt="${1}"; shift echo find . -iname \*"${tgt}"\* "${@}" find . -iname \*"${tgt}"\* "${@}" } In other words, case-insensitive search starting in CWD, with optional additional criteria.) I remain somewhat organized, lest my search results be too chaotic for me to read. But I need not be as perfectly organized as I once was, for the machine can now be useful and not a hindrance.
  - usaar333 15y ago
    I agree that find simplifies things, but I feel the ability to label is still important. Just as I may need to "label" an email message from my boss telling me to do something, I may need to label documents by course. Without labeling you lose (re-)discovery. I may want to read everything I wrote for a philosophy course a few years back. If I don't remember what I wrote about (and I don't), I can never find things again. (This has happened to me a lot with finding gmail messages) As for files, the result of your search is just files. You need to be able to do multiple actions on them (use different programs). So yes, our existent file managers are a bit limiting. They should focus more on labeling files (e.g. gmail) then folders. Search is already well-integrated into most operating systems. But in the end, at some level, you still work with files.

by cmelbye 15y ago

Dylan16807 15y ago

Dropbox can do what icloud does. Make one folder per app and hide file extensions in your os. I think the two services are very alike, the only real difference in which platforms are supported with full sync. Dropbox chooses desktops, icloud anything apple.

potatolicious 15y ago
Not true - one fundamental thing iCloud does that none of the synced-file services can do is seamless conflict resolution and offering devs an interface to do the same. If I create 10 Widgets in an app on my iPhone, and go to my iPad and create 10 more widgets, I expect that all 20 widgets be visible on both devices reasonably quickly. On Dropbox this is still a highly manual process, on iCloud this is handled behind the scenes and app devs have access to a (relatively sane, if still currently buggy) interface to make this possible. This is a huge use case, and part of why cloud sync is rarely as simple as downloading/uploading a file to a central source.
- Dylan16807 15y ago
  While the conflict resolution is a nice thing, the burden of implementation lies almost entirely on the app developer, not icloud. The same code could easily trigger whenever Dropbox replaces the open file or adds a renamed conflicted version.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

Kylekramer 15y ago

I think you might be a little. I may be overestimating the average user, but I believe iCloud over-abstracts the filesystem. A normal office worker has a ton of files already. It may be messy, but the world at large at least have some sort of workflow they carved out over the years of using the typical user facing filesystem. I can't imagine most people know how to get these files onto their iOS devices using iCloud. My iOS addicted family certainly doesn't. I honestly don't even really get it. If properly presented by HTC/Dropbox/Android, it is a superior solution. Rather that trying to figure out what the user wants and often frustrating them with invisible restrictions, a Dropbox solution just powerfully augments what the normal person already does on a computer. Put all of your stuff here. Press on your file, you get presented with a series of apps that can work with your stuff. And when you are done, put it back in the box that magically keeps all of your stuff. And the stuff in this box will work with any application that can parse that particular file on your phone/tablet/laptop/work computer, not just on a certain subset of apps on a certain subset of devices.

usaar333 15y ago

Just because our file management paradigm is 20+ years old, is it so bad? When you have a "lot of crap", you want some sort of organization to it. Folders do this well; gmail-esque labels arguably better. I can't see how you can get away with "hiding files" themselves. In the end, a file can have multiple applications handle it (view, edit, etc.).. somewhere the files need to be visible. On another note, Dropbox offers plenty more features. It is among the easiest ways to share files with another. And it runs on almost every platform; I can't even comment much on iCloud as I lack OS/X or an iOS device.

Cushman 15y ago
Because our file management paradigm is 20+ years old and many people younger than 20 still don't grok files, yes, it is so bad.
PeterWhittaker 15y ago
We needed a file management paradigm because we couldn't simply say to the filing system "bring me the X file, the one about Y". Now we can. The machines have caught up to our need and we may now be lazy. I am 46. I have worked in IT long enough to remember having to be obsessively organized. Why? Because I had no choice. The machine could not help me. I have become lazy in my dotage. Why? Because the machine lets me. gmail search is so fast I no longer organize email - it simply isn't worth organizing. I enter criteria, I find my email. When I was organized, I would have to break my current flow to remember my organizational method - which morphed over time, good luck with that. find is now so fast - because of fast hardware - that I no longer even bother to try remembering where I filed things, I just type fndi criterion (fndi, he said? function fndi () { tgt="${1}"; shift echo find . -iname \*"${tgt}"\* "${@}" find . -iname \*"${tgt}"\* "${@}" } In other words, case-insensitive search starting in CWD, with optional additional criteria.) I remain somewhat organized, lest my search results be too chaotic for me to read. But I need not be as perfectly organized as I once was, for the machine can now be useful and not a hindrance.
- usaar333 15y ago
  I agree that find simplifies things, but I feel the ability to label is still important. Just as I may need to "label" an email message from my boss telling me to do something, I may need to label documents by course. Without labeling you lose (re-)discovery. I may want to read everything I wrote for a philosophy course a few years back. If I don't remember what I wrote about (and I don't), I can never find things again. (This has happened to me a lot with finding gmail messages) As for files, the result of your search is just files. You need to be able to do multiple actions on them (use different programs). So yes, our existent file managers are a bit limiting. They should focus more on labeling files (e.g. gmail) then folders. Search is already well-integrated into most operating systems. But in the end, at some level, you still work with files.