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Yes, this is now a certified HN thread. Someone stole your car? You should be taking public transit anyways...

undersuit 3y ago
But how do we stop someone from stealing your car? Maybe we could reduce the reliance on the car, but we're not going to do that.
- throwawaylinux 3y ago
  But how do we stop someone from stealing your bicycle?
  - undersuit 3y ago
    Make the theft of the bike unpalatable without increasing the amount of policing in NA please. Reduce the benefit they get from stealing a bike. Whether it just not having to look as long for a rental bike or reducing the cost of bike use in general so there is less profit incentive to steal a bike. We could also reduce the pain felt by the person stolen from with the same actions. I would be less inconvenienced by my bike being stolen if their is a free bike I could use for these situations, or maybe free public transportation. I would still be inconvenienced but I wouldn't be stuck in my rural home 30 miles away from my jobs because I live in a car-centric landscape.
    - throwawaylinux 3y ago
      > Make the theft of the bike unpalatable without increasing the amount of policing in NA please. Have prosecutors strongly prosecute property crimes?
      - undersuit 3y ago
        That's increasing policing. what if you could make the theft of a personal property hurt less?
        throwawaylinux 3y ago
        It's not increasing policing, just increasing prosections and penalties. But yes it would also be good to also strip money and welfare from offenders and force them to pay restitution to their victims, thereby reducing the hurt from their crimes.
        undersuit 3y ago
        >But yes it would also be good to also strip money and welfare from offenders No, it would not be good. It would be harmful. It would encourage more of the crime you say you want to stop.
        throwawaylinux 3y ago
        It would be good. It would not be harmful. Almost none of the crime I say I want to stop is driven by people driven to desperation to survive, so the prospect of consequences would make it a net positive for reducing them.
        undersuit 3y ago
        > Almost none of the crime You said it.
        throwawaylinux 3y ago
        > Almost none of the crime [] is driven by people driven to desperation to survive Yep.
        undersuit 3y ago
        So you are advocating to increase the punishments of those driven to desperation to survive. Further harming them.
- akomtu 3y ago
  And how do we stop someone from breaking into your house? By moving everyone to barracks.
  - undersuit 3y ago
    Why are they breaking into your house? Are they going to take your house for a joy ride until they can't anymore and then just find another house to drive? I'm not advocating that you just stop caring about crime, I want you to think about how we can address the root causes. One of them being the prevalence of easily theft-able, expensive possessions we store on the street.
    - akomtu 3y ago
      Burglars want to change ownership of things in your house, so why don't we move on to communal ownership where all things are shared? The root of the problem is the "seed of evil", also known as selfishness or the idea of separateness. But selfishness is a necessary step in evolution, and if you remove all shiny things that provoke greed, and all other things that make selfishness meaningful, you'd derail the evolution. So, shiny things that people can own and display bring more good than harm at this point.
      - undersuit 3y ago
        OK cool you have a hypothesis on how you can reduce the amount of harm done in the world. How are you going to go about doing something about it? Are you going to increase the severity of the punishment for stealing a car? Or should you address a root cause? To use your metaphor a seed would be much easier to control than trying to tell a grown tree where to drop its leaves in the fall.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  Most of these vehicles are stolen while parked. If people just drove them more, they wouldn't be getting stolen! Canadian car ownership rates are higher than most developed EU countries, but it's not like Canadians are blowing them out of the water. Tied with Finland. Within 10% of Malta, Cyprus, Luxembourg, Italy, Estonia and Iceland. Within 21% of Germany, Spain, France, Portugal, Norway, and Japan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_...
  - RamblingCTO 3y ago
    What a weird comparison. Europe is a bit denser and smaller with more public transport, don't you think?
    - jabradoodle 3y ago
      That was exactly their point, that Canadian car ownership isn't that high when compared to places that likely have less need for cars.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - RamblingCTO 3y ago
        I don't agree. > Most of these vehicles are stolen while parked. If people just drove them more, they wouldn't be getting stolen! > Canadian car ownership rates are higher than most developed EU countries, but it's not like Canadians are blowing them out of the water.
inglor_cz 3y ago
What if they start stealing buses, too? It is admittedly very complicated to steal an entire train, but with enough police indolence, I wouldn't dismiss the idea outright.
- undersuit 3y ago
  What if? Stealing a bus is just as illegal as stealing a car. Maybe there is some kind way the busses are protected from theft... like parking it in a secure lot, not on a city street that you may not even live right by because parking is congested.
  - inglor_cz 3y ago
    Buses here in Czechia are pretty often parked in some non-secure place during the day and sometimes even during the night, but, then, vehicle theft tends to be prosecuted here. It is not a trivial crime by deranged individuals, the criminal syndicates involved in its commission are extensive.
    - undersuit 3y ago
      But does Czechia have rampant vehicle crime whether, personal or public? https://knoema.com/atlas/Canada/topics/Crime-Statistics/Burglary-Car-Theft-and-Housebreaking/Private-car-theft-rate https://knoema.com/atlas/Canada/topics/Crime-Statistics/Burg... Versus https://knoema.com/atlas/Czech-Republic/topics/Crime-Statistics/Burglary-Car-Theft-and-Housebreaking/Private-car-theft-rate https://knoema.com/atlas/Czech-Republic/topics/Crime-Statist... Maybe the data from knoema.com is wrong somewhere but may I also present to you something you probably know about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Metro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Metro
      - inglor_cz 3y ago
        I am not really sure why would you tell me about the Prague Metro, which I have taken for approximately 26 years by now. I can tell you every single station on every line by heart.

But how do we stop someone from stealing your car? Maybe we could reduce the reliance on the car, but we're not going to do that.

throwawaylinux 3y ago
But how do we stop someone from stealing your bicycle?
- undersuit 3y ago
  Make the theft of the bike unpalatable without increasing the amount of policing in NA please. Reduce the benefit they get from stealing a bike. Whether it just not having to look as long for a rental bike or reducing the cost of bike use in general so there is less profit incentive to steal a bike. We could also reduce the pain felt by the person stolen from with the same actions. I would be less inconvenienced by my bike being stolen if their is a free bike I could use for these situations, or maybe free public transportation. I would still be inconvenienced but I wouldn't be stuck in my rural home 30 miles away from my jobs because I live in a car-centric landscape.
  - throwawaylinux 3y ago
    > Make the theft of the bike unpalatable without increasing the amount of policing in NA please. Have prosecutors strongly prosecute property crimes?
    - undersuit 3y ago
      That's increasing policing. what if you could make the theft of a personal property hurt less?
      - throwawaylinux 3y ago
        It's not increasing policing, just increasing prosections and penalties. But yes it would also be good to also strip money and welfare from offenders and force them to pay restitution to their victims, thereby reducing the hurt from their crimes.
        undersuit 3y ago
        >But yes it would also be good to also strip money and welfare from offenders No, it would not be good. It would be harmful. It would encourage more of the crime you say you want to stop.
        throwawaylinux 3y ago
        It would be good. It would not be harmful. Almost none of the crime I say I want to stop is driven by people driven to desperation to survive, so the prospect of consequences would make it a net positive for reducing them.
        undersuit 3y ago
        > Almost none of the crime You said it.
        throwawaylinux 3y ago
        > Almost none of the crime [] is driven by people driven to desperation to survive Yep.
        undersuit 3y ago
        So you are advocating to increase the punishments of those driven to desperation to survive. Further harming them.
akomtu 3y ago
And how do we stop someone from breaking into your house? By moving everyone to barracks.
- undersuit 3y ago
  Why are they breaking into your house? Are they going to take your house for a joy ride until they can't anymore and then just find another house to drive? I'm not advocating that you just stop caring about crime, I want you to think about how we can address the root causes. One of them being the prevalence of easily theft-able, expensive possessions we store on the street.
  - akomtu 3y ago
    Burglars want to change ownership of things in your house, so why don't we move on to communal ownership where all things are shared? The root of the problem is the "seed of evil", also known as selfishness or the idea of separateness. But selfishness is a necessary step in evolution, and if you remove all shiny things that provoke greed, and all other things that make selfishness meaningful, you'd derail the evolution. So, shiny things that people can own and display bring more good than harm at this point.
    - undersuit 3y ago
      OK cool you have a hypothesis on how you can reduce the amount of harm done in the world. How are you going to go about doing something about it? Are you going to increase the severity of the punishment for stealing a car? Or should you address a root cause? To use your metaphor a seed would be much easier to control than trying to tell a grown tree where to drop its leaves in the fall.
Scoundreller 3y ago
Most of these vehicles are stolen while parked. If people just drove them more, they wouldn't be getting stolen! Canadian car ownership rates are higher than most developed EU countries, but it's not like Canadians are blowing them out of the water. Tied with Finland. Within 10% of Malta, Cyprus, Luxembourg, Italy, Estonia and Iceland. Within 21% of Germany, Spain, France, Portugal, Norway, and Japan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_...
- RamblingCTO 3y ago
  What a weird comparison. Europe is a bit denser and smaller with more public transport, don't you think?
  - jabradoodle 3y ago
    That was exactly their point, that Canadian car ownership isn't that high when compared to places that likely have less need for cars.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - RamblingCTO 3y ago
      I don't agree. > Most of these vehicles are stolen while parked. If people just drove them more, they wouldn't be getting stolen! > Canadian car ownership rates are higher than most developed EU countries, but it's not like Canadians are blowing them out of the water.

inglor_cz 3y ago

What if they start stealing buses, too? It is admittedly very complicated to steal an entire train, but with enough police indolence, I wouldn't dismiss the idea outright.

undersuit 3y ago
What if? Stealing a bus is just as illegal as stealing a car. Maybe there is some kind way the busses are protected from theft... like parking it in a secure lot, not on a city street that you may not even live right by because parking is congested.
- inglor_cz 3y ago
  Buses here in Czechia are pretty often parked in some non-secure place during the day and sometimes even during the night, but, then, vehicle theft tends to be prosecuted here. It is not a trivial crime by deranged individuals, the criminal syndicates involved in its commission are extensive.
  - undersuit 3y ago
    But does Czechia have rampant vehicle crime whether, personal or public? https://knoema.com/atlas/Canada/topics/Crime-Statistics/Burglary-Car-Theft-and-Housebreaking/Private-car-theft-rate https://knoema.com/atlas/Canada/topics/Crime-Statistics/Burg... Versus https://knoema.com/atlas/Czech-Republic/topics/Crime-Statistics/Burglary-Car-Theft-and-Housebreaking/Private-car-theft-rate https://knoema.com/atlas/Czech-Republic/topics/Crime-Statist... Maybe the data from knoema.com is wrong somewhere but may I also present to you something you probably know about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Metro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Metro
    - inglor_cz 3y ago
      I am not really sure why would you tell me about the Prague Metro, which I have taken for approximately 26 years by now. I can tell you every single station on every line by heart.