5 ms·

"I realize that each time it flickers to life could be its last. How does one go about finding ancient tubes nowadays? Where are the parents with the know-how t

"I realize that each time it flickers to life could be its last. How does one go about finding ancient tubes nowadays? Where are the parents with the know-how to fix such things anymore?" Fixing it is non-issue. Almost evey part will be available if not a direct replacement then a close substitute. Even new electrolytic capacitors can be made to look like old parts by burying them in the case of the defunct part. As for tubes, it's almost certain they'll be standard octals (they were commonplace by 1941), and there's any number of them around both new-old stock and secondhand.

Apreche 3y ago
Seriously. The author is smart enough to get their piece published in the LA Times. You would think they know how to search YouTube for "how to repair old radio".
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- komadori 3y ago
  I was going to write that expertise in one area doesn't necessarily transfer to competence in another, but then it occurred to me: Perhaps the radio is still running off the same valve that his father installed in 1978 and that is part of the emotional value that it holds for him.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    If your father fixed something for you, it could feel like a betrayal of his memory to hire someone to fix it again for you. Though personally, if I had the deep emotional connection with it, I'd want to fix it myself (almost certainly with assistance from some amateurs who know the radio).
    - lozf 3y ago
      Give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish :/
      - mlyle 3y ago
        You're never going to "teach a man to fish" on how to keep his one, mostly-reliable, tube type radio going. You can teach him to switch tubes, but eventually it's going to get more complicated than that, and you can only get so much experience from a touch of help every few years.
        hilbert42 3y ago
        Whilst it doesn't happen very often it never ceases to amaze me that some of those old radios will still work after being switched off for about half century. I've switched them on expecting fireworks—the plates in the 5Y3G/T or 80 rectifiers glowing red hot because the electrolytic caps had shorted to deck—but no they actually still worked. What's more I've even had some of those ancient wet electrolytic caps (the 1930s-style 8μF/400V types in vertical cans mounted on the chassis) actually work. Mind you, I certainly don't recommend you do that—do as I say not as I do (I'm rather gung ho about such matters and rather enjoy the fireworks). Be warned, you can not only blow up the rectifiers but also the power transformer and that'll likely be much harder to replace than the tubes. I recall several years back being so shocked that some of those old wet electros still worked that I pulled the top seals off several and stuck my multimeter in the electrolyte and noticed that essentially there was no voltage between the electrolyte and the case. I even stuck my finger on the Al foil and could feel very little until I pushed hard and then suddenly whammo—ouch. A fascinating exercise, it's an excellent illustration of how good aluminum oxide is as an insulator and dielectric. Please don't try this unless you are as mad as I am—and even then don't do it!
        bombcar 3y ago
        Electronics (and machines in general are weird). My car dies in a month if I don’t start it because of parasitic drain. My 1969 deuce and a half fired up after two years with zero problem at all. I have ancient computers that work fine and much much newer ones dead by capacitor.
  - cratermoon 3y ago
    Radio of Theseus
- Waterluvian 3y ago
  And therefore have to omit that poetic line?
- varelse 3y ago
  [dead]
- hilbert42 3y ago
  That's rather unfair. Whilst I cut my teeth on old radios like that (which were essentially obsolete when I was a kid), and their operation is second nature to me, I know many electronics people brought up on transistors, ICs and 5-Volt supply rails that wouldn't know where to begin fixing one. For starters, plate voltages upwards of 250V scare the shit out of them.
  - ddingus 3y ago
    Anything involving the mains can be a worry to them. However, it can also pass quickly! I have mentored a few of these people over the years. It is funny! I worry about burning up a chip, and they worry about getting zapped! We share experiences, fix or build a few things and it all works out fine.
wkdneidbwf 3y ago
yeah, they’re playing up the “can’t fix it again” angle for the melancholy feeling.
- ddingus 3y ago
  Maybe. They may feel that way themselves. Edit: I feel that way about my Apple Platinum 8 bit computer. It was the machine I started on, and I learned a ton! Great little computer. And of course, it can be fixed! But, I flip that switch, hear that 1Khz beep and do not look forward to the day coming when I do have to fix it.
RajT88 3y ago
Thanks to guitar players, lots of tubes are being manufactured new these days for old amps. There may even be new tube amps being made.
- janeway 3y ago
  Right, super popular for death metal guitarists, for some reason.
  - nicolaslem 3y ago
    Tube amps are really the default type of guitar amp for every genre. I can name hundreds of guitar players famous for playing tube amps, I don't think I can name a single one known to play solid state amps.
    - yodsanklai 3y ago
      With digital simulation, things are slowly changing and a lot of players now use digital amps on tour as a matter of convenience, even big names. This has been debated to death on guitar forums, but some would argue that digital is now undistinguishable from the tubes.
      - throwaway1004 3y ago
        >This has been debated to death on guitar forums, but some would argue that digital is now undistinguishable from the tubes. I find that it's impossible for the average listener to identify the difference in recorded music, especially if there's a lot of distortion in play, but I can entertain the idea that it's a detectable difference. As someone who moved from solid-state and digital amps to tube amps I find there to be a huge difference in terms of dynamics and response, which massively influences the way I and others play. I can't imagine Jeff Beck or Gary Moore getting the same results with non-tube amps, since their playing relies so much on dynamics and physically feeling and moving air in the room. edit: for live touring, though, it's so much more efficient to use digital or solid-state options for size, weight and reliability, if it doesn't directly impact the artist's ability to perform
giantg2 3y ago
"and there's any number of them around both new-old stock and secondhand." I believe there are even a company or two manufacturing new.
- PM_me_your_math 3y ago
  There are about 10 companies that still make vacuum tubes for a variety of products. There is also stock you can find on eBay or at ham radio festivals pretty easily. There are even customers who make crystals for old rigs like the Hallicrafters and Drake lines.
zabzonk 3y ago
one may not need to find ancient valves - my little (65-year old) brother builds valve amplifiers and repairs valve radios as a hobby, and seems to do ok. only problem that as far as i can see, many valves are apparently sourced from russia (i don't know about this definitively).
- squarefoot 3y ago
  Russians and other ex soviet countries kept manufacturing tubes well after the west stopped. They're often great quality military grade parts, a lot better than the Chinese remakes and fakes one can find at the usual online places. The same applies to germanium transistors and diodes, passive parts etc: excellent quality at very reasonable prices. Those who currently don't want to, or can't, buy from Russian sellers, can find the same items at various shops in western Europe: Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Ukraine (some shops still active and worth helping), Romania, Poland, etc.
  - zabzonk 3y ago
    yeah, my bro doesn't, AFAIK, buy from russia direct. but even if you buy from UK suppliers, you are still indirectly supporting the russian economy. i haven't brought this up with him - we have enough disagreements about politics as it is.
    - SLWW 3y ago
      Well you are maybe placing a few bucks in some English person's pocket where there was already money long gone to the Russian economy, and reminder that most people in Russia don't even support the war so it's not like you are making an impact outside of buying an Englishman tea after he already paid a Russian for his... idk what they prefer to drink over there other than Vodka. :P Even in Russia, it's mostly a cottage industry, they aren't shipping thousand's monthly and definitely are not funding a war machine from that small investment, it also costs them raw resources when they do eventually manufacture. War has a way of getting funding much greater than from it's exports.
  - hilbert42 3y ago
bwestergard 3y ago
Also, wouldn't keeping the tube filament temperature stable maximize longevity? In other words, couldn't leaving it on be better than using it once a day?
- winrid 3y ago
  No. The old caps in there will be overdriving the tubes. It will die pretty quickly.
Animats 3y ago
An AM-only radio of that period almost certainly uses the "All American Five" set of tubes. All of which are still available.[1] Note that many of those things are a hot-chassis design. The chassis is directly connected to one side of the power line, so there is a shock hazard. On some units, the shafts of the controls are live.[2] [1] https://www.tubedepot.com/products/american-5-tube-set https://www.tubedepot.com/products/american-5-tube-set [2] https://geojohn.org/Radios/MyRadios/Safety.html https://geojohn.org/Radios/MyRadios/Safety.html
- hilbert42 3y ago
  "Note that many of those things are a hot-chassis design." Right, hot-chassis was mainly a US phenomenon due to its 110/115V supply. It was very rare in other countries such as in Europe, UK, NZ and Australia that used 220/240V because of the danger. If memory serves me correctly, I think hot-chassis was banned in some countries such as Australia. Of the 220/240V countries some European ones did permit H-C but such sets were rare.
sbierwagen 3y ago
How long can a vacuum tube survive sitting on a shelf? Decades, apparently, but centuries? Millenia? What's the diffusion rate of air through the glass envelope?

Apreche 3y ago

Seriously. The author is smart enough to get their piece published in the LA Times. You would think they know how to search YouTube for "how to repair old radio".

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
komadori 3y ago
I was going to write that expertise in one area doesn't necessarily transfer to competence in another, but then it occurred to me: Perhaps the radio is still running off the same valve that his father installed in 1978 and that is part of the emotional value that it holds for him.
- bombcar 3y ago
  If your father fixed something for you, it could feel like a betrayal of his memory to hire someone to fix it again for you. Though personally, if I had the deep emotional connection with it, I'd want to fix it myself (almost certainly with assistance from some amateurs who know the radio).
  - lozf 3y ago
    Give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish :/
    - mlyle 3y ago
      You're never going to "teach a man to fish" on how to keep his one, mostly-reliable, tube type radio going. You can teach him to switch tubes, but eventually it's going to get more complicated than that, and you can only get so much experience from a touch of help every few years.
      - hilbert42 3y ago
        Whilst it doesn't happen very often it never ceases to amaze me that some of those old radios will still work after being switched off for about half century. I've switched them on expecting fireworks—the plates in the 5Y3G/T or 80 rectifiers glowing red hot because the electrolytic caps had shorted to deck—but no they actually still worked. What's more I've even had some of those ancient wet electrolytic caps (the 1930s-style 8μF/400V types in vertical cans mounted on the chassis) actually work. Mind you, I certainly don't recommend you do that—do as I say not as I do (I'm rather gung ho about such matters and rather enjoy the fireworks). Be warned, you can not only blow up the rectifiers but also the power transformer and that'll likely be much harder to replace than the tubes. I recall several years back being so shocked that some of those old wet electros still worked that I pulled the top seals off several and stuck my multimeter in the electrolyte and noticed that essentially there was no voltage between the electrolyte and the case. I even stuck my finger on the Al foil and could feel very little until I pushed hard and then suddenly whammo—ouch. A fascinating exercise, it's an excellent illustration of how good aluminum oxide is as an insulator and dielectric. Please don't try this unless you are as mad as I am—and even then don't do it!
        bombcar 3y ago
        Electronics (and machines in general are weird). My car dies in a month if I don’t start it because of parasitic drain. My 1969 deuce and a half fired up after two years with zero problem at all. I have ancient computers that work fine and much much newer ones dead by capacitor.
- cratermoon 3y ago
  Radio of Theseus
Waterluvian 3y ago
And therefore have to omit that poetic line?
varelse 3y ago
[dead]
hilbert42 3y ago
That's rather unfair. Whilst I cut my teeth on old radios like that (which were essentially obsolete when I was a kid), and their operation is second nature to me, I know many electronics people brought up on transistors, ICs and 5-Volt supply rails that wouldn't know where to begin fixing one. For starters, plate voltages upwards of 250V scare the shit out of them.
- ddingus 3y ago
  Anything involving the mains can be a worry to them. However, it can also pass quickly! I have mentored a few of these people over the years. It is funny! I worry about burning up a chip, and they worry about getting zapped! We share experiences, fix or build a few things and it all works out fine.

wkdneidbwf 3y ago

yeah, they’re playing up the “can’t fix it again” angle for the melancholy feeling.

ddingus 3y ago
Maybe. They may feel that way themselves. Edit: I feel that way about my Apple Platinum 8 bit computer. It was the machine I started on, and I learned a ton! Great little computer. And of course, it can be fixed! But, I flip that switch, hear that 1Khz beep and do not look forward to the day coming when I do have to fix it.

RajT88 3y ago

Thanks to guitar players, lots of tubes are being manufactured new these days for old amps. There may even be new tube amps being made.

janeway 3y ago
Right, super popular for death metal guitarists, for some reason.
- nicolaslem 3y ago
  Tube amps are really the default type of guitar amp for every genre. I can name hundreds of guitar players famous for playing tube amps, I don't think I can name a single one known to play solid state amps.
  - yodsanklai 3y ago
    With digital simulation, things are slowly changing and a lot of players now use digital amps on tour as a matter of convenience, even big names. This has been debated to death on guitar forums, but some would argue that digital is now undistinguishable from the tubes.
    - throwaway1004 3y ago
      >This has been debated to death on guitar forums, but some would argue that digital is now undistinguishable from the tubes. I find that it's impossible for the average listener to identify the difference in recorded music, especially if there's a lot of distortion in play, but I can entertain the idea that it's a detectable difference. As someone who moved from solid-state and digital amps to tube amps I find there to be a huge difference in terms of dynamics and response, which massively influences the way I and others play. I can't imagine Jeff Beck or Gary Moore getting the same results with non-tube amps, since their playing relies so much on dynamics and physically feeling and moving air in the room. edit: for live touring, though, it's so much more efficient to use digital or solid-state options for size, weight and reliability, if it doesn't directly impact the artist's ability to perform

giantg2 3y ago

"and there's any number of them around both new-old stock and secondhand." I believe there are even a company or two manufacturing new.

PM_me_your_math 3y ago
There are about 10 companies that still make vacuum tubes for a variety of products. There is also stock you can find on eBay or at ham radio festivals pretty easily. There are even customers who make crystals for old rigs like the Hallicrafters and Drake lines.

zabzonk 3y ago

one may not need to find ancient valves - my little (65-year old) brother builds valve amplifiers and repairs valve radios as a hobby, and seems to do ok. only problem that as far as i can see, many valves are apparently sourced from russia (i don't know about this definitively).

squarefoot 3y ago
Russians and other ex soviet countries kept manufacturing tubes well after the west stopped. They're often great quality military grade parts, a lot better than the Chinese remakes and fakes one can find at the usual online places. The same applies to germanium transistors and diodes, passive parts etc: excellent quality at very reasonable prices. Those who currently don't want to, or can't, buy from Russian sellers, can find the same items at various shops in western Europe: Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Ukraine (some shops still active and worth helping), Romania, Poland, etc.
- zabzonk 3y ago
  yeah, my bro doesn't, AFAIK, buy from russia direct. but even if you buy from UK suppliers, you are still indirectly supporting the russian economy. i haven't brought this up with him - we have enough disagreements about politics as it is.
  - SLWW 3y ago
    Well you are maybe placing a few bucks in some English person's pocket where there was already money long gone to the Russian economy, and reminder that most people in Russia don't even support the war so it's not like you are making an impact outside of buying an Englishman tea after he already paid a Russian for his... idk what they prefer to drink over there other than Vodka. :P Even in Russia, it's mostly a cottage industry, they aren't shipping thousand's monthly and definitely are not funding a war machine from that small investment, it also costs them raw resources when they do eventually manufacture. War has a way of getting funding much greater than from it's exports.
- hilbert42 3y ago

bwestergard 3y ago

Also, wouldn't keeping the tube filament temperature stable maximize longevity? In other words, couldn't leaving it on be better than using it once a day?

winrid 3y ago
No. The old caps in there will be overdriving the tubes. It will die pretty quickly.

Animats 3y ago

An AM-only radio of that period almost certainly uses the "All American Five" set of tubes. All of which are still available.[1] Note that many of those things are a hot-chassis design. The chassis is directly connected to one side of the power line, so there is a shock hazard. On some units, the shafts of the controls are live.[2] [1] https://www.tubedepot.com/products/american-5-tube-set https://www.tubedepot.com/products/american-5-tube-set [2] https://geojohn.org/Radios/MyRadios/Safety.html https://geojohn.org/Radios/MyRadios/Safety.html

hilbert42 3y ago
"Note that many of those things are a hot-chassis design." Right, hot-chassis was mainly a US phenomenon due to its 110/115V supply. It was very rare in other countries such as in Europe, UK, NZ and Australia that used 220/240V because of the danger. If memory serves me correctly, I think hot-chassis was banned in some countries such as Australia. Of the 220/240V countries some European ones did permit H-C but such sets were rare.

sbierwagen 3y ago

How long can a vacuum tube survive sitting on a shelf? Decades, apparently, but centuries? Millenia? What's the diffusion rate of air through the glass envelope?