8 ms·

Vehicle theft at a 'critical point' in Canada, with car stolen every six minutes

version_five 3y ago
> The group says the province of Ontario as a whole witnessed 27,495 vehicle thefts in 2021. However, on five people were charged with the offense of altering, removing, or destroying a vehicle identification number. That's insane. Why isnt every policeman involved being fired? How could they possibly be doing their jobs this badly?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- toast0 3y ago
  This article could use an editor. But I'm not sure how many people I should expect to be charged with VIN altering for a given number of thefts? No mention of how many people were charged with auto theft either? Maybe those stealing cars in Ontario tend to deliver them elsewhere where they get VINs altered, so there's no need to charge people with that crime in Ontario. Maybe it's more of a national crime, so it doesn't get picked up in provicinal statistics? Maybe all the parts tend to get exported for sale, and they don't tend to have VINs checked against Ontario thefts, so why bother messing with them?
  - version_five 3y ago
    Unless the article is misrepresenting the total number of arrests that relate to car theft (I agree the wording is confusing), there is no acceptable excuse for single digit arrests. Do you think there are loads of other arrests related to car theft that they didn't mention and they just zoomed in on a random think with five arrests? I suppose it's possible...
    - toast0 3y ago
      I mean, if they can't be bothered to write 'only five' rather than 'on five', who knows what other corners they cut?
    - icegreentea2 3y ago
      Zooming in on one fact is exactly what they did, because that one fact is from the section of the report specifically talking about revinning vehicles. There's no other stats (from skimming through the report) on arrest numbers, however it does note that the stolen car recovery rate in 2022 is about 50 percent (down from like 80 to 90 in 2015). No relative numbers are given on the rates of cars being exported vs chopped for parts. No relative numbers of the three main methods of exporting (exporting vehicles that have been financed through stolen identities, revinning, and plain old stuff them into a container) are provided.
      - BeefWellington 3y ago
        In terms of raw crime stats, Statistics Canada lists motor vehicle theft as slightly on the rise from 2020 to 2021, but down substantially from 2011[1]. Interestingly, this page[2] shows a breakdown of several years leading up to the latest stats which show that it was out of control prior to the pandemic and 2020 was the best year recently (I assume because many were at home so less opportunity). The concerning thing might be though, that the number of people charged has not substantially changed, despite the number of thefts decreasing by about 9000 (~11%) in 2020. Police services across the country seem to charge roughly 5500 people with auto theft each year, though slightly down recently with youth dropping significantly. The article's focus on how this is a sudden problem when the rates are substantially lower (as of the 2021 data) than they were in 2019 is pretty weird. It also appears to be incorrect about the numbers of vehicle thefts in 2015. They claim it's 3284 but StatsCan lists just Toronto as having 6623 in 2015.[3] This all does point to a failure by Toronto PD (and bigger picture, other police departments) to enforce, and might explain the relative explosion of vehicle theft. In the years 2015 through 2021, the maximum amount of people they have charged with motor vehicle theft is 514. In that same span, thefts rose from 6623 to 14,032. Since it doesn't seem to be punished, just do more of it I guess. The difference in numbers appears to come from the fact that their linked report is using only Toronto PD's reporting but they aren't going to have all of the numbers because Ontario's provincial police force also operates in and around the city. [1]: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2022001/article/00013/tbl/tbl03-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2022001/article... [2]: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510017701&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.69&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2017&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2021&referencePeriods=20170101%2C20210101 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=351001... [3]: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510017701&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.19&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.69&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2015&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2021&referencePeriods=20150101%2C20210101 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=351001...
- paulddraper 3y ago
  I guess the criminals are just that good. --- On a more serious note, policemen arrest and prosectors charge.
  - JimtheCoder 3y ago
    "On a more serious note, policemen arrest" Well, apparently not in Canada...
- gloryjulio 3y ago
  Well that's basically Canada. Politicians literally do nothing except boot-licking the oligarch families like the Irvings and massive importing labors to suppress the wages
  - gloryjulio 3y ago
    Interesting that every time I bring up the social economical reality in Canada on hn and I got down votes or whataboutism but never a productive refutal. I wonder why ;D
- bcrl 3y ago
  Police don't do anything. I had 3 fibre optic cables cut by a Bell technician a couple of months ago that resulted in a significant ~30 hour outage for 60 customers. We knew when the cables were cut, we knew the cables were cut at a height on the pole in question that was only accessible via a ladder or bucket truck, and we knew the first name of the Bell tech that was working on a copper phone line for the only residence served by that pole. There was no question as to who cut the cables, but without video footage the cops wouldn't make any effort whatsoever to pursue the matter. The OPP officer took a report and did nothing more. I no longer have absolutely no expectation of justice on "minor" matters from police here in Ontario. There are other local residents have had various possessions stolen. We know informally who did it, but the police can't do a thing. Not sure what the cops are doing with the truckloads of money they get from our taxes every year.
mikequinlan 3y ago
Someone needs to find that car and lock it up!
undersuit 3y ago
I wonder if the US and Canadian reliance on personal transport is ever going to be considered a failure or if we are just going to create another bandaid for our symptoms.
- JimtheCoder 3y ago
  Yes, this is now a certified HN thread. Someone stole your car? You should be taking public transit anyways...
  - undersuit 3y ago
    But how do we stop someone from stealing your car? Maybe we could reduce the reliance on the car, but we're not going to do that.
    - throwawaylinux 3y ago
      But how do we stop someone from stealing your bicycle?
      - undersuit 3y ago
        Make the theft of the bike unpalatable without increasing the amount of policing in NA please. Reduce the benefit they get from stealing a bike. Whether it just not having to look as long for a rental bike or reducing the cost of bike use in general so there is less profit incentive to steal a bike. We could also reduce the pain felt by the person stolen from with the same actions. I would be less inconvenienced by my bike being stolen if their is a free bike I could use for these situations, or maybe free public transportation. I would still be inconvenienced but I wouldn't be stuck in my rural home 30 miles away from my jobs because I live in a car-centric landscape.
        throwawaylinux 3y ago
        > Make the theft of the bike unpalatable without increasing the amount of policing in NA please. Have prosecutors strongly prosecute property crimes?
Proven 3y ago
[dead]
kazinator 3y ago
I'm just thinking, some people have no taste in hobbies. You couldn't pay me to steal a car. Especially not in Canada. So I drive out of the lot in my new stolen car. Next thing I know, I'm behind some asshole who won't move into the intersection for a left turn, and if that doesn't drain the fun out of it, there are numerous constructions and jam on the bridge ... finally I'm at my destination; just 20 minutes more of circling around for parking! Ugh, should have stayed the fuck home and not stolen a car.
user6723 3y ago
[flagged]
- testmasterflex 3y ago
  Tx?
  - user6723 3y ago
    Utah
Lornedon 3y ago
> The profits earned from these thefts are used to finance drug trafficking I think that drug trafficking is used to finance drug trafficking.
- Ekaros 3y ago
  It seems time for full legalization. So drugs can finance selling drugs...

> The group says the province of Ontario as a whole witnessed 27,495 vehicle thefts in 2021. However, on five people were charged with the offense of altering, removing, or destroying a vehicle identification number. That's insane. Why isnt every policeman involved being fired? How could they possibly be doing their jobs this badly?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
toast0 3y ago
This article could use an editor. But I'm not sure how many people I should expect to be charged with VIN altering for a given number of thefts? No mention of how many people were charged with auto theft either? Maybe those stealing cars in Ontario tend to deliver them elsewhere where they get VINs altered, so there's no need to charge people with that crime in Ontario. Maybe it's more of a national crime, so it doesn't get picked up in provicinal statistics? Maybe all the parts tend to get exported for sale, and they don't tend to have VINs checked against Ontario thefts, so why bother messing with them?
- version_five 3y ago
  Unless the article is misrepresenting the total number of arrests that relate to car theft (I agree the wording is confusing), there is no acceptable excuse for single digit arrests. Do you think there are loads of other arrests related to car theft that they didn't mention and they just zoomed in on a random think with five arrests? I suppose it's possible...
  - toast0 3y ago
    I mean, if they can't be bothered to write 'only five' rather than 'on five', who knows what other corners they cut?
  - icegreentea2 3y ago
    Zooming in on one fact is exactly what they did, because that one fact is from the section of the report specifically talking about revinning vehicles. There's no other stats (from skimming through the report) on arrest numbers, however it does note that the stolen car recovery rate in 2022 is about 50 percent (down from like 80 to 90 in 2015). No relative numbers are given on the rates of cars being exported vs chopped for parts. No relative numbers of the three main methods of exporting (exporting vehicles that have been financed through stolen identities, revinning, and plain old stuff them into a container) are provided.
    - BeefWellington 3y ago
      In terms of raw crime stats, Statistics Canada lists motor vehicle theft as slightly on the rise from 2020 to 2021, but down substantially from 2011[1]. Interestingly, this page[2] shows a breakdown of several years leading up to the latest stats which show that it was out of control prior to the pandemic and 2020 was the best year recently (I assume because many were at home so less opportunity). The concerning thing might be though, that the number of people charged has not substantially changed, despite the number of thefts decreasing by about 9000 (~11%) in 2020. Police services across the country seem to charge roughly 5500 people with auto theft each year, though slightly down recently with youth dropping significantly. The article's focus on how this is a sudden problem when the rates are substantially lower (as of the 2021 data) than they were in 2019 is pretty weird. It also appears to be incorrect about the numbers of vehicle thefts in 2015. They claim it's 3284 but StatsCan lists just Toronto as having 6623 in 2015.[3] This all does point to a failure by Toronto PD (and bigger picture, other police departments) to enforce, and might explain the relative explosion of vehicle theft. In the years 2015 through 2021, the maximum amount of people they have charged with motor vehicle theft is 514. In that same span, thefts rose from 6623 to 14,032. Since it doesn't seem to be punished, just do more of it I guess. The difference in numbers appears to come from the fact that their linked report is using only Toronto PD's reporting but they aren't going to have all of the numbers because Ontario's provincial police force also operates in and around the city. [1]: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2022001/article/00013/tbl/tbl03-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2022001/article... [2]: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510017701&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.69&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2017&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2021&referencePeriods=20170101%2C20210101 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=351001... [3]: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510017701&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.19&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.69&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2015&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2021&referencePeriods=20150101%2C20210101 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=351001...
paulddraper 3y ago
I guess the criminals are just that good. --- On a more serious note, policemen arrest and prosectors charge.
- JimtheCoder 3y ago
  "On a more serious note, policemen arrest" Well, apparently not in Canada...
gloryjulio 3y ago
Well that's basically Canada. Politicians literally do nothing except boot-licking the oligarch families like the Irvings and massive importing labors to suppress the wages
- gloryjulio 3y ago
  Interesting that every time I bring up the social economical reality in Canada on hn and I got down votes or whataboutism but never a productive refutal. I wonder why ;D
bcrl 3y ago
Police don't do anything. I had 3 fibre optic cables cut by a Bell technician a couple of months ago that resulted in a significant ~30 hour outage for 60 customers. We knew when the cables were cut, we knew the cables were cut at a height on the pole in question that was only accessible via a ladder or bucket truck, and we knew the first name of the Bell tech that was working on a copper phone line for the only residence served by that pole. There was no question as to who cut the cables, but without video footage the cops wouldn't make any effort whatsoever to pursue the matter. The OPP officer took a report and did nothing more. I no longer have absolutely no expectation of justice on "minor" matters from police here in Ontario. There are other local residents have had various possessions stolen. We know informally who did it, but the police can't do a thing. Not sure what the cops are doing with the truckloads of money they get from our taxes every year.

mikequinlan 3y ago

Someone needs to find that car and lock it up!

undersuit 3y ago

I wonder if the US and Canadian reliance on personal transport is ever going to be considered a failure or if we are just going to create another bandaid for our symptoms.

JimtheCoder 3y ago
Yes, this is now a certified HN thread. Someone stole your car? You should be taking public transit anyways...
- undersuit 3y ago
  But how do we stop someone from stealing your car? Maybe we could reduce the reliance on the car, but we're not going to do that.
  - throwawaylinux 3y ago
    But how do we stop someone from stealing your bicycle?
    - undersuit 3y ago
      Make the theft of the bike unpalatable without increasing the amount of policing in NA please. Reduce the benefit they get from stealing a bike. Whether it just not having to look as long for a rental bike or reducing the cost of bike use in general so there is less profit incentive to steal a bike. We could also reduce the pain felt by the person stolen from with the same actions. I would be less inconvenienced by my bike being stolen if their is a free bike I could use for these situations, or maybe free public transportation. I would still be inconvenienced but I wouldn't be stuck in my rural home 30 miles away from my jobs because I live in a car-centric landscape.
      - throwawaylinux 3y ago
        > Make the theft of the bike unpalatable without increasing the amount of policing in NA please. Have prosecutors strongly prosecute property crimes?

Proven 3y ago

[dead]

kazinator 3y ago

I'm just thinking, some people have no taste in hobbies. You couldn't pay me to steal a car. Especially not in Canada. So I drive out of the lot in my new stolen car. Next thing I know, I'm behind some asshole who won't move into the intersection for a left turn, and if that doesn't drain the fun out of it, there are numerous constructions and jam on the bridge ... finally I'm at my destination; just 20 minutes more of circling around for parking! Ugh, should have stayed the fuck home and not stolen a car.

user6723 3y ago

[flagged]

testmasterflex 3y ago
Tx?
- user6723 3y ago
  Utah

Lornedon 3y ago

> The profits earned from these thefts are used to finance drug trafficking I think that drug trafficking is used to finance drug trafficking.

Ekaros 3y ago
It seems time for full legalization. So drugs can finance selling drugs...