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Florida has banned direct-to-consumer auto sales, but Tesla and co get a pass
- karmakaze 3y ago> The law lets electric-only manufacturers like Tesla sell directly, but older companies’ electric cars must go through dealerships. Talk about an unlevel playing field. If EVs are to be incentivized, direct sales should be allowed for all EVs from any manufacturer.
- juujian 3y agoI'm kind of curious whether Elon personally has anything to do with that exception. It is pretty advantageous for him.
- gbear605 3y agoElon is helping with DeSantis’ presidential campaign, so it seems almost certain.
- kgwxd 3y agoI stop wondering a long time ago. It's more blatant than ever.
- vkou 3y agoThe two are political bedmates, there's no doubt about it.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoFlorida situation aside (could be shady shit going on, would have to suss it out with some investigative work), other states that have allowed new automakers to sell direct have been provided the exemption because they don't have an existing dealer network they're competing with. For legacy auto, the dealer network was a benefit (offloading local customer relationships, inventory, service) that is now an albatross they'll have to buy out. Just another combustion->EV transition disadvantage to incumbents (legacy auto dealers rely primarily on service revenue, and EVs require much less service overall). For example, GM had to buy out 150 Cadillac dealerships that did not want to pay for the costs involved to transition to EV products (~$200k/dealer). Ford is having problems with dealers drastically marking up their EV products with "market adjustment fees", discouraging uptake, and are attempting to twist dealership arms so they fall in line to compete against Tesla's no haggle pricing. TLDR Interest alignment challenge. https://www.autonews.com/dealers/car-dealer-automaker-tensions-rise-over-state-bills https://www.autonews.com/dealers/car-dealer-automaker-tensio... https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/04/about-150-cadillac-dealers-take-gm-buyouts-rather-than-invest-in-evs.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/04/about-150-cadillac-dealers-t... https://electrek.co/2022/09/14/ford-sets-new-dealers-requirements-in-order-to-sell-evs/ https://electrek.co/2022/09/14/ford-sets-new-dealers-require... https://twitter.com/mrlevine/status/1373646122548301833 https://twitter.com/mrlevine/status/1373646122548301833 https://www.teslarati.com/ford-dealership-applies-69554-markup-on-f-150-lightning-despite-corporate-orders/ https://www.teslarati.com/ford-dealership-applies-69554-mark...
- stefan_ 3y agoAnd why would we legally protect dealerships? Are we doing the same for McDonalds franchisees? Who is protecting the corner Wendys from being undercut by a mothership restaurant?
- toomuchtodo 3y agoHistorically, dealer franchise protection laws were enacted to protect local small business (dealerships) from the muscle of Big Auto. https://futurist.law.umich.edu/preemptive-federal-legislation-for-ev-manufacturers-to-sell-direct-to-customers/ https://futurist.law.umich.edu/preemptive-federal-legislatio...
- anderber 3y agoDeSantis announced his presidential bid on Twitter, so I'd say there's a very strong connection.
- akira2501 3y agoWould you really feel differently about any part of the situation if you found out he had nothing to do with it? He's still accepting the benefit of it and apparently not campaigning _against_ it. "Will no one rid me of these meddlesome dealerships?!"
- phpisthebest 3y agoElon probably influenced the carve out, but the Ban is all Dealer Lobbying Auto Dealers at the state level it one of the most, if not most powerful groups in state politics, as a huge part of most state revenues are derived from taxes on Auto Sales. it is by far the most expensive item most people purchase that is subject to sale taxation I am kinda surprised they allowed for a carve at all.
- yumraj 3y agoHe owns Twitter. DeSantis announced his presidential bid on Twitter. You can draw your own conclusions.
- EricDeb 3y agoI'll answer that for you: yes
- karmakaze 3y agoTesla of course wanted direct distribution. Existing automakers lobbied against it. I guess each got what they requested, but only for themselves. It's sort of like a Judgement of Solomon response.
- rkagerer 3y agoI remember when Tesla was an upstart underdog for whom I rooted.
- foogazi 3y ago1. Courted the left with green EV tech & solar 2. Courted the right with access to social media 3. Profit!
- jmclnx 3y agoDidn't the Gov of FL through recent legislation it very costly to buy or own an EV ? I thought I read that somewhere but forgot where.
- Someone1234 3y agoThis PDF from Consumer Reports discusses some of these EV exclusive taxes: https://advocacy.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Consumer-Reports-EV-Fee-analysis.pdf https://advocacy.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2019... Depending on the state, in some states you always save money Vs. gas tax, but in others unless you're in the top 10% or even top >5% of drivers by miles driven, you're likely paying more in EV fees than gas tax would cost. If you only drive your EV low distances, you're particularly negatively impacted. There are some programs meant to help with fix this, but they involve putting a GPS tracker in your vehicle that both drains the battery and robs you of your privacy, so you're exchanging one problem for another. PS - Many of these states also target Hybrids and Plug-In Hybrids with these fees and many of the problems listed above also impact them.
- mavhc 3y agohttps://floridapolitics.com/archives/610033-george-riley-lets-tap-the-brakes-on-floridas-electric-vehicle-tax/ https://floridapolitics.com/archives/610033-george-riley-let...
- jeffnappi 3y agoSounds like a good way to hasten the move to electric. Manufacturers should stop updating gas models and focus all R&D on electric. Phase out ICE vehicles ASAP, and policy that encourages that is good regardless of whether it currently gives an unfair advantage to Tesla, Rivian, etc.
- Waterluvian 3y agoNot at all, whatsoever. This means that any company that sells ICE vehicles can’t even try to compete. So this strongly disincentivizes incumbents from moving towards EVs in Florida. There is no teleporting into a perfect future.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mabbo 3y agoWhat a fascinating example of what we can expect from DeSantis should he become president. You do him favors, like give him a platform to announce his presidency run, and you get laws passed that are clearly designed to help your company beat your competitors. There's nothing sly or secretive about it. He's making a statement here to all the big companies: "those who help me win will get rewarded for it". Edit later: Sorry all, feel free to disregard this and/or down vote it. Not because you agree or disagree but because this isn't the right place for this kind of snarkiness.
- akira2501 3y agoYou should expect this from any candidate. The amount of money required to run for President is absurd. There's a very small class of people who are capable of putting this together, and they're all apparently incapable of doing so without making massive political sacrifices to the donor class. American politics are largely broken.
- VirusNewbie 3y agoHow does it help “beat your competitors” if Rivian and Lucid get the same treatment?
- mabbo 3y agoBecause Tesla is the dominant player in the market by a very large amount. Yes a few other companies will benefit, but none that Tesla is worried about.
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- samtho 3y agoThe fact that the dealership lobby is having to push for laws to protect their business means they are seeing the writing on the wall: the car dealership model will soon become just another (unpleasant) relic from the past. Baby Boomers and GenX both like the idea of being sold something and having that service provided, but Millennials and GenZ have consistently shown that we greatly value self-service, straightforward pricing, and not wasting time or money on feeding the “fat” in systems. Car dealerships are a major reason why new vehicles are so expensive now, with automobile pricing far outpacing inflation or any other metric. In what other industry, not using the dealership model, would we be ok with major purchases being gate-kept by an army of middlemen who’s job is to grift off of every sale, obfuscating the price, are trained in deception, and their employer will also try to sell you financing, service place, and other crazy shit that people are not informed about? At least in retail you can shop around and find the best price and margins are well understood.
- phpisthebest 3y ago>>In what other industry, not using the dealership model, would we be ok with major purchases being gate-kept by an army of middlemen who’s job is to grift off of every sale I see you have never tried to buy Enterprise Technology equipment, or Enterprise Software or really anything that is target at B2B sales Consumer sales have less of this, but 90% B2B is network of middlemen gifting off sales with no way to go direct. hell I was on a call directly with the developer of a software product I wanted to buy, it was a low 4 figure deal, but it took several weeks to buy it because the deal had to go through some 3rd party company as they did not sell direct... I would rather just added it to a cart online and bought it with my company credit card....
- croes 3y agoSelf service on modern cars, good luck with that. Car dealerships need their local customers, global car manufacturers don't. Prepare yourself for a poop emoji if you try to complain.
- samtho 3y agoCar dealerships should not exist. The fact they have a lobby trying to get laws passed to save them should be a very clear signal that they are in trouble. Global car makers would love to sell directly. Again, why are there laws forbidding this if there was no intention by the manufacturers?
- sschueller 3y agoCorruption in plane sight and there is nothing you can do about it except stop giving Elon money in any form and don't vote for DeSantis.
- LammyL 3y agoWouldn’t not buying a car from a dealership have more incentive to end the corruption?
- predictabl3 3y ago[flagged]
- mdhen 3y agoThis is 100% a result of car dealerships lobbying
- 93po 3y agoI've long hated dealerships and their lobbying, but it's never occurred to me until now that it's odd that non-Tesla manufacturers don't out-lobby car dealerships (which they could easily do in terms of resources). It would lower the end cost for the consumer and therefore allow them to sell more cars, right? One study shows it would cut costs by 8.6%, which is huge
- mbg721 3y agoCan I hate all sides in this? Car manufacturers have a huge information asymmetry with end-users, which leads to ugliness like in-car tracking systems that insurers love. But dealers capture most of that information asymmetry because they can learn the tricks and people don't buy cars very often.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- amagine 3y agoFrom the political party that praises the free market.
- senectus1 3y agoI thought republicans were all about small Gov...? this feels like big Gov in intricate detail
- foogazi 3y agoBesides Tesla, What automakers sell direct to consumers?
- bastard_op 3y agoYes, I want to pay a middle-man dealer for literally nothing other than some perceived right to screw me buying a car at a MSRP price plus "market adjustment" because they can! If dealers won't sell at MSRP as good enough, it should be redefined as something that is beholden to only their greed, but not simply legitimized by dealers that feel entitled to get over on me adding to the legal price. Dealerships are now akin to legalized scalping like StubHub and Ticketmaster adding superfluous charges and fees, and I will purposefully try not to deal with them ever again. Dealer licenses should be revoked for doing this, not endorsed and supported.
- hosioti 3y ago[flagged]