7 ms·

Was Brendan a white nationalist or white supremacist? The article cited him as being the leader of a white nationalist group, but then used the phrase "white su

Was Brendan a white nationalist or white supremacist? The article cited him as being the leader of a white nationalist group, but then used the phrase "white supremacist" throughout the article, so it's a little unclear what his original starting point was.

chiefalchemist 3y ago
Yeah. I noticed that as well. Sadly, those two phrases seemed to be treated as synonyms. More or less stereotyping racists.
- Finnucane 3y ago
  Yes, it’s unfair to compare people who want expel nonwhite people from the country to people who want to treat nonwhite people as not-people, because we know those groups don’t overlap at all.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    I’ve heard racist nationalists express genuine praise for other nations, so long as they’re their own. The internal dialogue might be that “they” are sending their worst “here” to dress and speak and act like “us.”
    - xracy 3y ago
      Yeah, definitely real "separate but equal" types...
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        I have a mixed heritage that can physically resemble anyone between Italy and India, as well as Central America. It’s wild to see dispositions shift as folks learn my “real” background (Germanic, technically though not precisely Austrian-Swiss, and Indian). The former get skewered for it, but it’s just as prevalent in the East.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - chiefalchemist 3y ago
    It's fair. What's unfair is to use the wrong words, which create the wrong worlds. When your pet barks, do you call it cat? Humans are blessed with a higher level of communication, there's no reason to abuse it. There's no good reason to be lazy. There's no good reason to take pride in negligence. Step up. Lean in. Or for the sake of truth and justice, just shut up*. We've got enough noise to have to contend with fools who effectively don't know green from yellow. * Not you, but the collective of people who believe Orwellian newspeak-y speak it ok.
    - Finnucane 3y ago
      They’re bloody racists, so fuck them.
      - chiefalchemist 3y ago
        The only people(s) who get fucked by wrong, lazy, and ambiguous communication is the sender and the receiver. That is, using the wrong words gives the subject matter a free pass. How can something be addressed and resolved when there's deception and ambiguity? p.s. Hating haters isn't exactly clean and consistent either. But that's another chat for another day.
jqpabc123 3y ago
It's a little unclear where the distinction lies between the two. "White nationalist" overlaps with and kinda implies "white supremacist". After all, the idea that whites should dominate is kinda hard to explain or logically justify without introducing the concept of superiority.
- logicalmonster 3y ago
  >It's a little unclear where the distinction lies between the two. "White nationalist" overlaps with and kinda implies "white supremacist". I don't think this distinction is unclear. In and of itself, a racial nationalist's beliefs might be something close to "I prefer to live in a country with my own people." In and of itself, a racial supremacist's beliefs might be something close to "My people are inherently superior and should rule over others." Anyway, I'm mainly just interested in this person's starting point and the effect that his trip had on him, as well as calling out the media for not being precise about these issues. Nationalist and Supremacist are not synonyms: that's lazy click-baiting journalism.
  - jqpabc123 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - nyolfen 3y ago
      i am reliably informed that this nation was founded upon genocide
      - failbuffer 3y ago
        While acknowledging its sins, America should ultimately be judged by its triumphs.
        krapp 3y ago
        America should be judged by the way it acknowledges its sins, because its triumphs more often than not are the inheritance of those sins.
xracy 3y ago
Because the kinds of people who want you to distinguish between the two are the kinds of people who lie in the middle of the venn diagram. Which, to be honest, if it's not a single overlapping circle, it's pretty darn close... Nobody wants to have their own nation state dedicated to their race because they appreciate other cultures and want them to live on their own. Find me the white nationalist who is not a white supremacist, and I will have them demonstrate being a white supremacist to you.

chiefalchemist 3y ago

Yeah. I noticed that as well. Sadly, those two phrases seemed to be treated as synonyms. More or less stereotyping racists.

Finnucane 3y ago
Yes, it’s unfair to compare people who want expel nonwhite people from the country to people who want to treat nonwhite people as not-people, because we know those groups don’t overlap at all.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  I’ve heard racist nationalists express genuine praise for other nations, so long as they’re their own. The internal dialogue might be that “they” are sending their worst “here” to dress and speak and act like “us.”
  - xracy 3y ago
    Yeah, definitely real "separate but equal" types...
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      I have a mixed heritage that can physically resemble anyone between Italy and India, as well as Central America. It’s wild to see dispositions shift as folks learn my “real” background (Germanic, technically though not precisely Austrian-Swiss, and Indian). The former get skewered for it, but it’s just as prevalent in the East.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- chiefalchemist 3y ago
  It's fair. What's unfair is to use the wrong words, which create the wrong worlds. When your pet barks, do you call it cat? Humans are blessed with a higher level of communication, there's no reason to abuse it. There's no good reason to be lazy. There's no good reason to take pride in negligence. Step up. Lean in. Or for the sake of truth and justice, just shut up*. We've got enough noise to have to contend with fools who effectively don't know green from yellow. * Not you, but the collective of people who believe Orwellian newspeak-y speak it ok.
  - Finnucane 3y ago
    They’re bloody racists, so fuck them.
    - chiefalchemist 3y ago
      The only people(s) who get fucked by wrong, lazy, and ambiguous communication is the sender and the receiver. That is, using the wrong words gives the subject matter a free pass. How can something be addressed and resolved when there's deception and ambiguity? p.s. Hating haters isn't exactly clean and consistent either. But that's another chat for another day.

jqpabc123 3y ago

It's a little unclear where the distinction lies between the two. "White nationalist" overlaps with and kinda implies "white supremacist". After all, the idea that whites should dominate is kinda hard to explain or logically justify without introducing the concept of superiority.

logicalmonster 3y ago
>It's a little unclear where the distinction lies between the two. "White nationalist" overlaps with and kinda implies "white supremacist". I don't think this distinction is unclear. In and of itself, a racial nationalist's beliefs might be something close to "I prefer to live in a country with my own people." In and of itself, a racial supremacist's beliefs might be something close to "My people are inherently superior and should rule over others." Anyway, I'm mainly just interested in this person's starting point and the effect that his trip had on him, as well as calling out the media for not being precise about these issues. Nationalist and Supremacist are not synonyms: that's lazy click-baiting journalism.
- jqpabc123 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - nyolfen 3y ago
    i am reliably informed that this nation was founded upon genocide
    - failbuffer 3y ago
      While acknowledging its sins, America should ultimately be judged by its triumphs.
      - krapp 3y ago
        America should be judged by the way it acknowledges its sins, because its triumphs more often than not are the inheritance of those sins.

xracy 3y ago

Because the kinds of people who want you to distinguish between the two are the kinds of people who lie in the middle of the venn diagram. Which, to be honest, if it's not a single overlapping circle, it's pretty darn close... Nobody wants to have their own nation state dedicated to their race because they appreciate other cultures and want them to live on their own. Find me the white nationalist who is not a white supremacist, and I will have them demonstrate being a white supremacist to you.