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White supremacist changes beliefs after taking MDMA for a study
- logicalmonster 3y agoWas Brendan a white nationalist or white supremacist? The article cited him as being the leader of a white nationalist group, but then used the phrase "white supremacist" throughout the article, so it's a little unclear what his original starting point was.
- chiefalchemist 3y agoYeah. I noticed that as well. Sadly, those two phrases seemed to be treated as synonyms. More or less stereotyping racists.
- Finnucane 3y agoYes, it’s unfair to compare people who want expel nonwhite people from the country to people who want to treat nonwhite people as not-people, because we know those groups don’t overlap at all.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 3y agoI’ve heard racist nationalists express genuine praise for other nations, so long as they’re their own. The internal dialogue might be that “they” are sending their worst “here” to dress and speak and act like “us.”
- xracy 3y agoYeah, definitely real "separate but equal" types...
- JumpCrisscross 3y agoI have a mixed heritage that can physically resemble anyone between Italy and India, as well as Central America. It’s wild to see dispositions shift as folks learn my “real” background (Germanic, technically though not precisely Austrian-Swiss, and Indian). The former get skewered for it, but it’s just as prevalent in the East.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- chiefalchemist 3y agoIt's fair. What's unfair is to use the wrong words, which create the wrong worlds. When your pet barks, do you call it cat? Humans are blessed with a higher level of communication, there's no reason to abuse it. There's no good reason to be lazy. There's no good reason to take pride in negligence. Step up. Lean in. Or for the sake of truth and justice, just shut up*. We've got enough noise to have to contend with fools who effectively don't know green from yellow. * Not you, but the collective of people who believe Orwellian newspeak-y speak it ok.
- Finnucane 3y agoThey’re bloody racists, so fuck them.
- chiefalchemist 3y agoThe only people(s) who get fucked by wrong, lazy, and ambiguous communication is the sender and the receiver. That is, using the wrong words gives the subject matter a free pass. How can something be addressed and resolved when there's deception and ambiguity? p.s. Hating haters isn't exactly clean and consistent either. But that's another chat for another day.
- jqpabc123 3y agoIt's a little unclear where the distinction lies between the two. "White nationalist" overlaps with and kinda implies "white supremacist". After all, the idea that whites should dominate is kinda hard to explain or logically justify without introducing the concept of superiority.
- logicalmonster 3y ago>It's a little unclear where the distinction lies between the two. "White nationalist" overlaps with and kinda implies "white supremacist". I don't think this distinction is unclear. In and of itself, a racial nationalist's beliefs might be something close to "I prefer to live in a country with my own people." In and of itself, a racial supremacist's beliefs might be something close to "My people are inherently superior and should rule over others." Anyway, I'm mainly just interested in this person's starting point and the effect that his trip had on him, as well as calling out the media for not being precise about these issues. Nationalist and Supremacist are not synonyms: that's lazy click-baiting journalism.
- jqpabc123 3y ago[flagged]
- nyolfen 3y agoi am reliably informed that this nation was founded upon genocide
- failbuffer 3y agoWhile acknowledging its sins, America should ultimately be judged by its triumphs.
- krapp 3y agoAmerica should be judged by the way it acknowledges its sins, because its triumphs more often than not are the inheritance of those sins.
- xracy 3y agoBecause the kinds of people who want you to distinguish between the two are the kinds of people who lie in the middle of the venn diagram. Which, to be honest, if it's not a single overlapping circle, it's pretty darn close... Nobody wants to have their own nation state dedicated to their race because they appreciate other cultures and want them to live on their own. Find me the white nationalist who is not a white supremacist, and I will have them demonstrate being a white supremacist to you.
- chiefalchemist 3y agoBut wasn't that the original intent and promise of MDMA as a tool for therapy? That is, to help the individual be more introspective and unlock and unblock their baggage? In other words, his change in beliefs is a symptom. The root trigger is he changed his view of himself after taking MDMA. It's a subtle but important distinction.
- mistermann 3y agoConsidering how much conflict there is in the world at all sorts of different levels, the relative lack of interest in these tools is rather interesting.
- chiefalchemist 3y agoOnce you get on the schedule 1 list, not many PhDs are going to want to come to your rescue. Another great example of "Trust the experts" gone wrong.
- mistermann 3y ago> Once you get on the schedule 1 list, not many PhDs are going to want to come to your rescue. And yet, I bet most of these people consider themselves both smart, and concerned about ~all important matters.
- pjkundert 3y ago[flagged]
- korijn 3y ago[flagged]
- beardyw 3y agoPresumably his views may now conflict with those of his colleagues, friends and, possibly, family. It will be a major life event for him.
- jasonhansel 3y agoIt seems like MDMA doesn't always change people's beliefs in the right way: > MDMA has, for instance, been used by the Taliban to channel connection to the divine during prayer chants, according to Nuwer. Indeed, it would be very surprising if a drug consistently made its users' beliefs more accurate.
- avtar 3y agoThe use of MDMA, ketamine, psilocybin, etc in clinical settings is usually paired with clear and wholesome intention setting, and therapy work. The substance seems to be just one part of a set of processes.
- HKH2 3y agoYeah, psychedelics often do make belief systems more consistent (or they break them completely), and consistency is not accuracy.
- drewcoo 3y agohttps://www.history.com/topics/crime/history-of-mdma https://www.history.com/topics/crime/history-of-mdma Nothing says "it doesn't work consistently" like MK-Ultra!
- yodsanklai 3y agoWhat does a sample of size one tells about MDMA?
- wintorez 3y agoIt's easy to forget that after all, our brain is just a complex chemical machine. Introduce a new chemical into it, and everything about you can change. There is no abstract "self" inside. Our mind is just a function of our brain.
- monero-xmr 3y agoUnless you believe as I do that a metaphysical soul inhabits your body, there is life after death, and your memory continues on after death.
- naikrovek 3y agoseems unlikely to me. it makes much more sense to me that how and why we behave as we do is a function of the mechanisms in our brains and bodies.
- wintorez 3y agoI used to believe that completely, until I got to experience my grandmother's Alzheimer's and Dementia. Nothing disproves the idea of a ever-lasting, metaphysical soul, like seeing it crumble before your eyes as various parts of brain decay and shut down. I really hope that you never experience it yourself, and I respect your beliefs, but I'm convinced beyond a doubt that there is nothing in there that is not chemical.
- monero-xmr 3y agoYes I have had elderly relatives fall apart. But you can certainly appreciate that I have thought about all of the big questions - bad things happening to good people, injustice, our body and mind decaying - and it doesn’t shake my faith.
- stouset 3y agoI for one can certainly appreciate that faith often seems to be unshakeable in the face of contradictory evidence. When someone’s metaphysical soul passes on, what snapshot in time are someone’s memories plucked from their Alzheimer’s-riddled brain?
- kodah 3y ago> She added that it's "mind-boggling" that the drug could potentially change someone's beliefs in the way it is thought to have done with Brendan. > But in the case of Brendan, he had recently been exposed as a white supremacist and lost his job when he was enrolled in the study. He was full of regret about getting caught out. > 30 minutes after taking the MDMA pill, Brendan questioned: "Why am I doing this? Why am I thinking this way?" and wondered why he had jeopardized the relationships in his life. Case study of one here, but MDMA can change your reference point for how you think about things that are connection related. He was already in crisis from losing his job and, likely, reputation. If I had to guess, Brendan realized humans are humans, and the future of humanity doesn't rely on abstract physical traits but on deeper things. This is to say, I think they understand what many drug users do: the drug wasn't the difference; crisis was the difference and using the right tool led him out of that crisis. Think along the lines of, instead of this event being "the end" of Brendan (eg: losing his job and reputation) he now interprets it as a new beginning. The two discoveries together can chart a path forward. The bit about the Taliban kind of reinforces this I think. Often the Taliban exploits people in crisis from my experience. They use the guiding during the drug to chart the user to a nationalist path. > Nuwer pointed out that Brendan's "seemingly spontaneous change" appears to be an exception to the norm. MDMA releases the chemical oxytocin, which our bodies naturally produce. The chemical causes animals to fiercely love their own, but also protect them from others — which can mean a disdain for outsiders may actually increase. I don't even know about this mess. Animals and humans are not the same when it comes to connection. Animals require domestication or some sort of symbiosis to cooperate while humans can do this with much more fluidity. I think this bit of data needlessly complicates what they observed with Brendan. Future test recommendation: find a human in a moment of crisis (maybe need to be specific on what kinds) and administer a drug and therapy. Help them navigate said crisis and observe the results over the next 3 months, specifically in vectors of thought. You could even go as far as to map this progress to neurogenesis.
- _8j50 3y agoMaybe Brendan is lying and trying to salvage his ruined life. Unless there is a controlled study, you shouldn't accept this as fact.
- pessimizer 3y agoPretty silly story. Pretty sure some of them have changed their beliefs over a cop of coffee, too.
- DANmode 3y agoSince you brought it up: Coffee is also a psychoactive drug.
- redroyal 3y agoGiving someone a mind altering drug in order to manipulate their political beliefs is brainwashing and totally unethical. This guy forgot who he was.
- stouset 3y ago> The man… was enrolled in an MDMA study… which investigated whether the drug could increase the pleasantness of human touch. Second sentence of the article.
- redroyal 3y agoBut that’s clearly the utility being proposed. It disturbs me that a few feet from the Berkeley campus there are now five dispensaries. This is where they’re going. Let’s “fix” the “broken” people. Yesterday you had to put a bullet in them but now we can have them whistling the village tune and paying their taxes with a 50c pill.
- stouset 3y agoYes, won’t somebody think of the poor white supremacists who… come to reevaluate their belief systems after having a few moments of chemically-increased empathy? The man didn’t forget who he was. Reading the article, it suddenly became painfully clear to him who he was, and he started to question why. I’m quite certain that weed and MDMA aren’t quite the woke mind-control agents you seem to believe they are.
- nielsbot 3y agoFrom the page: “MDMA doesn't have a political agenda” LOL
- Rebelgecko 3y agoIs it possible that MDMA could also cause someone to have a "revelation" that makes them racist?
- solarmist 3y agoI’m sure it is. But I’m not sure what that would look like. Possibly someone who was a hardcore PETA activist type in a crisis of conscience in some small rural place given a second chance by someone who was racist. This is admittedly a bizarre set of circumstances that would need to happen.
- HKH2 3y agoWith psychedelics, you can wire your brain to believe whatever you want. Of course, if what you believe is at odds with your environment then you're bound to have trouble.
- nielsbot 3y agoMy personal understanding is that MDMA increases empathy. Maybe temporarily. I don't think that's compatible with becoming more racist. Just a guess.
- thunkshift1 3y agoPowerful..This why the drug was banned before