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Watching this video I just assumed the logic board removal was some aside, not necessary to replace the battery. Nope! Looking at their 13" guide this entire pr

Watching this video I just assumed the logic board removal was some aside, not necessary to replace the battery. Nope! Looking at their 13" guide this entire process is necessary to perform a battery replacement. Given everything else is solid state and will probably never fail it makes even less sense to block battery replacement behind them. The Air is an awesome device to use but wow... what a terrible design for battery replacement.

chronicsonic 3y ago
Yeah bit strange with the future EU rules calling for user replaceable batteries.
- dagmx 3y ago
  This would likely still pass muster under that ruling. They don’t specify that it has to be trivial, just that it has to be doable without specialty tools.
woleium 3y ago
... for replacement. Batteries have sensitive thermal requirements, so im sure there is a reason for the layout the wayy it is.
- nrp 3y ago
  The reason is most likely just that there was no consideration in the design process for designing for serviceability. It’s surprisingly easy to design for repair without sacrificing other attributes if you include that in your design goals from the start.
  - lozenge 3y ago
    On what basis do you say easy to repair doesn't involve sacrificing other attributes? I've seen the Fairphone and it's a chunky one.
    - nrp 3y ago
      We sell a laptop that is the same thickness and weight as a MacBook Pro 13-inch, in which every part is trivially replaceable using one tool.
      - kaba0 3y ago
        And is it as capable as well? Because I can also put some shitty decades old hardware and shitty battery into any thin case, that’s not a meaningful comparison.
      - savy91 3y ago
        I was going with "oh yes? Show me what you sell" then I clicked on your username. You are doing an amazing job!
      - the_overseer 3y ago
        Does it also have the same build quality, performance, battery life and price? Do you also sell tens of millions of them per year? There's been enough HN threads where people bought framework laptops only to ditch them a few weeks after as they are nowhere near a macbook no matter how much you try to oversell it.
        nrp 3y ago
        It’s unclear if you’re looking for a discussion in good faith, but, here are The Verge’s reviews of the most recent MacBook Pro 13-inch and Framework Laptop as reference points: https://www.theverge.com/23177674/apple-macbook-pro-m2-2022-review-price-specs-features https://www.theverge.com/23177674/apple-macbook-pro-m2-2022-... https://www.theverge.com/23725039/framework-laptop-13-2023-intel-review https://www.theverge.com/23725039/framework-laptop-13-2023-i...
        the_overseer 3y ago
        Those links only serve my point. Macbook destroys framework in terms of battery life and dominates in performance benchmarks. Oddly, also in games. Though I wouldn't play Shadow of Tomb Raider on either of them. Also, it has better build quality than the framework laptop.
ChuckNorris89 3y ago
>Given everything else is solid state and will probably never fail Huh? Solid state drives do certainly fail, especially consumer parts. Ideally, IF Apple were to source the best NAND silicone for reliability, and IF they had the best wear leveling algos implemented in NAND controller FW, and IF MacOS had optimal IO for write calls, and IF the soldering, temperatures, and voltage regulation to the NAND and controller were to be kept within ideal spec, then we could safely assume they might never fail, but that's a lot of IFs, and is why SSDs still fail quite a bit despite no moving parts. Which is why I refuse to buy PCs/laptops with soldered storage. That's like buying a car with the brake pads permanently attached to the chassis.
- api 3y ago
  Not often these days, and if you want them to really last the trick is to oversize them. If you need 2TiB get 4. That’s because wear is a function of amount written divided by the size or the drive due to wear leveling. For most people this advice doesn’t matter but if you do work on your laptop that involves tons and tons of writes (e.g. local Docker work with lots of huge container builds and multiple VMs) then over provisioning is good. It’s also very good advice for any server deployment you want to be reliable. If I were deploying a good old fashioned database box to be super reliable I’d oversize the SSD as much as possible (coupled with hot swap and mirroring).
  - justapassenger 3y ago
    “Just buy 2x what you need” is not exactly equal to “it’s super reliable and never fail”.
    - dymk 3y ago
      Redundancy is a perfectly reasonable way to achieve reliability
      - justapassenger 3y ago
        Yes, it’s a reasonable way to achieve reliably of the whole system, as long as you have infinite money.
superdude12 3y ago
Batteries should last for years more than previous generations. Battery life is so good I only charge at most once a day.

chronicsonic 3y ago

Yeah bit strange with the future EU rules calling for user replaceable batteries.

dagmx 3y ago
This would likely still pass muster under that ruling. They don’t specify that it has to be trivial, just that it has to be doable without specialty tools.

woleium 3y ago

... for replacement. Batteries have sensitive thermal requirements, so im sure there is a reason for the layout the wayy it is.

nrp 3y ago
The reason is most likely just that there was no consideration in the design process for designing for serviceability. It’s surprisingly easy to design for repair without sacrificing other attributes if you include that in your design goals from the start.
- lozenge 3y ago
  On what basis do you say easy to repair doesn't involve sacrificing other attributes? I've seen the Fairphone and it's a chunky one.
  - nrp 3y ago
    We sell a laptop that is the same thickness and weight as a MacBook Pro 13-inch, in which every part is trivially replaceable using one tool.
    - kaba0 3y ago
      And is it as capable as well? Because I can also put some shitty decades old hardware and shitty battery into any thin case, that’s not a meaningful comparison.
    - savy91 3y ago
      I was going with "oh yes? Show me what you sell" then I clicked on your username. You are doing an amazing job!
    - the_overseer 3y ago
      Does it also have the same build quality, performance, battery life and price? Do you also sell tens of millions of them per year? There's been enough HN threads where people bought framework laptops only to ditch them a few weeks after as they are nowhere near a macbook no matter how much you try to oversell it.
      - nrp 3y ago
        It’s unclear if you’re looking for a discussion in good faith, but, here are The Verge’s reviews of the most recent MacBook Pro 13-inch and Framework Laptop as reference points: https://www.theverge.com/23177674/apple-macbook-pro-m2-2022-review-price-specs-features https://www.theverge.com/23177674/apple-macbook-pro-m2-2022-... https://www.theverge.com/23725039/framework-laptop-13-2023-intel-review https://www.theverge.com/23725039/framework-laptop-13-2023-i...
        the_overseer 3y ago
        Those links only serve my point. Macbook destroys framework in terms of battery life and dominates in performance benchmarks. Oddly, also in games. Though I wouldn't play Shadow of Tomb Raider on either of them. Also, it has better build quality than the framework laptop.

ChuckNorris89 3y ago

>Given everything else is solid state and will probably never fail Huh? Solid state drives do certainly fail, especially consumer parts. Ideally, IF Apple were to source the best NAND silicone for reliability, and IF they had the best wear leveling algos implemented in NAND controller FW, and IF MacOS had optimal IO for write calls, and IF the soldering, temperatures, and voltage regulation to the NAND and controller were to be kept within ideal spec, then we could safely assume they might never fail, but that's a lot of IFs, and is why SSDs still fail quite a bit despite no moving parts. Which is why I refuse to buy PCs/laptops with soldered storage. That's like buying a car with the brake pads permanently attached to the chassis.

api 3y ago
Not often these days, and if you want them to really last the trick is to oversize them. If you need 2TiB get 4. That’s because wear is a function of amount written divided by the size or the drive due to wear leveling. For most people this advice doesn’t matter but if you do work on your laptop that involves tons and tons of writes (e.g. local Docker work with lots of huge container builds and multiple VMs) then over provisioning is good. It’s also very good advice for any server deployment you want to be reliable. If I were deploying a good old fashioned database box to be super reliable I’d oversize the SSD as much as possible (coupled with hot swap and mirroring).
- justapassenger 3y ago
  “Just buy 2x what you need” is not exactly equal to “it’s super reliable and never fail”.
  - dymk 3y ago
    Redundancy is a perfectly reasonable way to achieve reliability
    - justapassenger 3y ago
      Yes, it’s a reasonable way to achieve reliably of the whole system, as long as you have infinite money.

superdude12 3y ago

Batteries should last for years more than previous generations. Battery life is so good I only charge at most once a day.