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Brain Waves Synchronize When People Interact
- arthurcolle 3y agoPretty sweet that this is legit from the future https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/brain-waves-synchronize-when-people-interact/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/brain-waves-synch... ```NEUROSCIENCE Brain Waves Synchronize when People Interact The minds of social species are strikingly resonant By Lydia Denworth on July 1, 2023 Scientific American July 2023 Issue ```
- jasfi 3y agoThat's the date of the magazine issue.
- nickpeterson 3y agoNice try time traveler.
- TooSmugToFail 3y agoI vaguely remember the concept of “languaging” from the works of Maturana & Varela, where two entities (minds) in this interaction would gradually converge to a similar structure.
- dataviz1000 3y agoAn evolutionary pressure may indeed exist that encourages the synchronization of brain patterns in situations involving power dynamics between individuals with varying levels of authority. This could go beyond mere synchronization, potentially favoring the adaptability of individuals in subordinate roles whose brains can align with those in dominant positions. This capability could have enhanced survival within structured social systems throughout human history. Moreover, if brain synchronization is a reality, it might suggest the possibility of memory linkage across spatial distances. This notion aligns with the principle that neurons which fire together wire together. Consequently, if individuals' brains are synchronizing, their neurons may be forming connections, or wiring together, across distinct locations.
- lapama 3y agoThis is in the thin line between telepathy and network science, and provides an interesting basis to research further. Would there be a possible link to quantum entanglement?
- drowsspa 3y agoNo.
- wizofaus 3y agoOnly if you're a Traveler.
- quickthrower2 3y agoSpooky action at a distance cannot transmit information.
- lapama 3y agoSince I am an ignorant on quantum, please would you mind providing a reference?
- quickthrower2 3y agoThere is this: https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/602518 https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/602518, or do you want a paper? I don't have a paper link, I am not that deep into it.
- lapama 3y agoI can dig from here, thanks a lot!
- SketchySeaBeast 3y agoI think we're taking the fact that the article says "similar" a lot and running too far with it. As they say, it only makes sense that similar areas of the brain would activate when processing similar stimuli. That's not telepathy or entanglement.
- msla 3y agoDoesn't even mention autism. You'd think that would be a topic, in such a context.
- j16sdiz 3y agoyou don't touch every interesting topic in a new and evolving research area.
- Animats 3y agoEverything that oscillates at roughly the same frequency and has some coupling synchronizes.[1] No surprise here. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aaxw4zbULMs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aaxw4zbULMs
- 2-718-281-828 3y agoand how does the coupling work?
- ajuc 3y agoThrough our senses?
- 2-718-281-828 3y agomy question was to the parent. my point is that pretending like this is a trivial phenomenon is just naive. not sure what your reply is even supposed to mean or convey, frankly speaking.
- ajuc 3y ago> > how does the coupling work? > through our senses I think it's pretty obvious what I meant? person A person A person B person B brain waves -> body -> senses -> brain waves <- senses <- body <-
- 2-718-281-828 3y agoand what is this adding to the question of how this works or that it works? nothing. your suggestion is as speculative as it is generic.
- wfme 3y agoBeing insufferable is not required to get your point across. We all spend a fair bit of time discussing things without certainty. Immediately shooting those bits and pieces down only looks to end the discussion.
- baronblackmore 3y agoI wish they would be specific about what exactly the waves are that synchronise. When they show wave diagrams, the source of the value is never described.
- IIAOPSW 3y agoWhats the difference between electrically and acoustically coupled neurons in a network? I don't know either.
- kitchi 3y agoIn spiritual/mystical literature there are many references to enlightenment being the realization that all consciousness is connected. In the light of this research I wonder if what they are talking about is synchronicity. Perhaps meditation enhances the brains ability to synchronize quickly, leading to that feeling?
- miobrien 3y agoFascinating thought.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- kseistrup 3y agoExactly. The claim is that brains are more like antennas than they are producers of thoughts. An example of modern spirituality subscribing to that idea is Martinus: Summary of a section of Book of Life: > The brain and nervous system as an antenna system for "electric" waves. "Electric" waves as the basis for the individual's experience of life. The brain and nervous system as the individual's gateway into the spiritual world. Special centres or complexes in the brain and nervous system for the various spiritual functions. Disharmony in the brain and nervous system as identical with "insanity", "mental deficiency" and "paralysis" https://www.martinus.dk/en/ttt/index.php?bog=51&stk=224 https://www.martinus.dk/en/ttt/index.php?bog=51&stk=224
- nh23423fefe 3y agobut every antenna is a transmitter? so the implied directionality isn't there.
- kseistrup 3y agoYou're right, the directionality is missing. The implicit direction is receiving.
- SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
- someweirdperson 3y agoBrains that are processing the same information show similar properties when measured? That doesn't sound surprising. > Neural waves in certain brain regions of people listening to a musical performance match those of the performer—the greater the synchrony, the greater the enjoyment. This specific case doesn't seem unexpected either. Unless the same experiment is conducted with an artificial performer (with sufficiently believable human-like properties), and no such sychoronization (with data from the time of recording) occurs. The article didn't seem to cover any of that. Hopefully it is somewhere in the original research.
- anthk 3y agohttps://neurophysics.ucsd.edu/courses/physics_171/Buzsaki%20G.%20Rhythms%20of%20the%20brain.pdf https://neurophysics.ucsd.edu/courses/physics_171/Buzsaki%20... Enjoy.
- sethammons 3y agoNeat opening quote: > If the brain were simple enough for us to understand it, we would be too simple to understand it.
- HarHarVeryFunny 3y agoCute, but seems wrong. This seems to be an emotional appeal to Godel's incompleteness theory/similar that system's can't necessarily answer all questions about themselves, but of course a) the brain is not a formal logic system, and b) it has evolved to understand/predict our environment which seems way more complicated than our brain.
- avgcorrection 3y ago> it has evolved to understand/predict our environment which seems way more complicated than our brain. Not a given.
- HarHarVeryFunny 3y agoMaybe a bit early to be confident about it, but the more we see architecturally simple artificial neural nets able to perform tasks of human perception (speech, hearing, vision) and now language and primitive cognition, the less likely it seems that the brain is using a radically different or more complex approach to do these same things. Evolution appears (as one might logically expect) to act in localized incremental ways. The result is that our body+brain is more of a modular design than a monolithic intractably complex one. We seem to be well on the way to understanding how these cortical functions of perception and cognition are working and what types of representations are being used, so once we refine our understanding of the other major moving parts such as thalamus (and thalamo-cortical loop) and hippocampus, it seems we'll be well on the way to understanding the overall architecture.
- anonymousDan 3y agoIt would be interesting to understand how synchronization is affected while learning for in-person learning in comparison to online/remote learning.
- fullshark 3y agoPrediction: this study's future result will be used to justify workers collaborating in offices.
- steve1977 3y agoNow in the context of working from home or in the office, the interesting question is wether this is a good or a bad thing. Or both.
- INTPenis 3y agoAlso raises questions on how this is perceived. For example some study said introverts have a higher emotional response from inanimate objects, such as when chatting on the computer. So could one person perhaps perceive a virtual discussion to be synchronized when it in fact is not?
- sethammons 3y agoI wonder if this is related to the brain's pattern matching. Brain A anticipates the actions of SocialBeing B and rewards being right. Ditto the other direction. Anticipated and confirmed behavior leading to synchronization in brain waves. Curious if we can see cross species effects, like a person and their dog.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y agoI would imagine dogs could be a special case. We evolved together.
- diegoholiveira 3y ago> We evolved together. Source?
- newoldhead 3y ago15,000 years of domestication Not really "evolution" for humans but we wouldn't have things like Chihuahuas or Pugs without humans breeding dogs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human%E2%80%93canine_bond https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human%E2%80%93canine_bond
- diegoholiveira 3y agoOn the last 15k years, I’m not sure about changes in our own species. That’s why I found the “together” an strange affirmation.
- civilitty 3y agoWe don’t have any specific genes to point to like with lactose tolerance but humans have definitely coevolved with dogs, especially pastoralists and hunters. With dogs most of the obvious coevolution has just been cultural.
- Enginerrrd 3y ago
- akhayam 3y agoI wonder how this synchrony can be used for efficient coding. I love and hate pair programming for its efficacy and inefficiency respectively. Is there a way to make it more efficient, as it’s already infinitely more enjoyable? Would love to see a study around this aspect.
- SketchySeaBeast 3y ago"An early, consistent finding is that when people converse or share an experience, their brain waves synchronize." It's literally already happening. This isn't an enlightened state, this is what happens when two brains respend to the same stimuli.
- Borrible 3y agoSo, two brains doing similar things with a common symbolic system in the same context show the same wave pattern... Why should they be different, again?
- sethammons 3y agoIn the article, they call our two squads of bats. When flying together and squeaking, their brain waves synchronize. When separated (even with shared audio of squeaking), synchronized brain waves were not seen. It seems to be a social thing.
- hourago 3y ago> After the conversations, the groups watched the clips again, as well as new video from the same movies. After further discussion that reached consensus, patterns of brain processing aligned across participants as they watched the second round of videos. What happens when one of the participants is a Language Model. Is it noticeable that there was a language model in the discussion? Do human brain waves changes in non-human ways or language models are just too similar to humans? It would be good that having the technology we started to study what talking with artificial intelligences do to human brains and if they are altered in any noticeable way.
- swayvil 3y agoWell there you go. Psychic powers. Case closed.