10 ms·

Apple subreddit reopens after moderation team threatened with removal

118 points by CharlesW 3y ago

jlpcsl 3y ago
Booo scabs and traitors
- smoldesu 3y ago
  I don't think anyone expected Apple users to lead the fight against API limitations.
  - mig39 3y ago
    I think it's because of the popularity of Apollo. I know that's the only app I use for Reddit.
- jrepinc 3y ago
  Yeah, so shameful and sad, people without integrity and solidarity in standing for some basic rights
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- n8cpdx 3y ago
  What’s the digital equivalent of a giant inflatable rat? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflatable_rat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflatable_rat
- ahahahahah 3y ago
  Did you read the comments from the actual Apple subreddit community? It's pretty clear that they think the blackout is some bullshit power hungry mod thing that they are happy to see end.
  - jlpcsl 3y ago
    So much worse. Then the scabs/traitors boooo also goes for them.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mfer 3y ago
> "If a moderator team unanimously decides to stop moderating, we will invite new, active moderators to keep these spaces open and accessible to users," This is where things have escalated to.
- ahahahahah 3y ago
  Yeah, it's kind of crazy how these mods just think they own the subreddits. Like, fuck the communities, I'm upset and I'm going to take my toys home. To be honest, I'd love for reddit to enhance a community's ability to control it's subreddit without needing to cede full control to some power hungry basement dweller.
JustARandomGuy 3y ago
Quote from article: Reddit CEO Steve Huffman… is apparently unaware that Reddit's success is because of the posts by the users that use the service in all of its forms If Reddit starts losing popularity due to this incident (and that is not guaranteed by far) this is going to be the money quote which sums up the entire situation. An unaware CEO unable to understand his own product nor users. With that said I think there is a strong chance that this will end up being a tempest in a teapot - there doesn’t seem to be any immediately obvious damage to the Reddit brand because of the blackout.
- superkuh 3y ago
  This is the third wave of gentrification on reddit. This has all happened before including reddit kicking off/out mods that closed their subreddits in protest. I know because it happened to me in wave 2. For all the people that leave there are plenty of Facebook refugees trickling in at the same rate. Reddit doesn't want it's power users, it wants Facebook/etc's users and cares nothing for it's original userbase (or culture, as shown by the post-VC capital emphasis on posting to /u/ user profiles instead of subreddits).
  - valar_m 3y ago
    > "Reddit doesn't want it's power users" I keep hearing people say this, but why would that be? By "power users" it seems like people are broadly referring to people who submit lots of original content-heavy posts and comments. Why would Reddit not want that?
    - rzazueta 3y ago
      I have a pet conspiracy theory that the leadership there thinks this may rid them of "troublemakers". Huffman's seemingly ludicrous hardcore stance against third party Apps and mods who disagree with him would seem to reinforce this. Basically, they're chasing away the folks who are most likely to cause a ruckus when Reddit inevitably tries to go IPO or otherwise make a profit. Everyone is saying this is in prep for their IPO, but I agree with Huffman's analysis that now is a really shitty time to be pondering an IPO. My guess is he has a checklist of items he needs to accomplish on the site handed to him by leadership to make everything look good for an IPO. He may have realized a lot of these would not go well with the community - this isn't his first rodeo with this stuff - so he applied draconian measures, hardened his heart against the mods and app devs who made the site what it is, and is hoping and praying there will be something left when the smoke clears. And there will be, especially as they force subreddits back into the light and encouraging mods to turn on each other. Basically, this is a loyalty test, and all of the disloyal people are being forced out. The loyal people who will pretty much go with anything Reddit leadership wants will be all that's left, and they're banking that will be enough. Add the influx of Facebook and Twitter refugees who likely see all of this as just nerd posturing, and, yeah, Reddit will likely survive and go IPO. But it will not be Reddit. It will be a sad, corporate shadow of the vibrant community it once was. And it will not last. I honestly believe distributed social media - ActivityPub, BlueSky (ew), or something yet to come - will be the future. It will look like your favorite social media feeds now, but it will act like email, just hopefully with better moderation and spam handling. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, and even YouTube will eventually relent and tie themselves to this ecosystem as a last ditch effort to stay alive, then probably picked apart by private equity vultures in an ignominious final act. EDIT: WOW - within five minutes of posting this, this other news story crossed my transom, more or less confirming my theory. Neat! https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/reddit-blackout-protest-private-ceo-elon-musk-huffman-rcna89700 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/reddit-blackout-prote...
mrkeen 3y ago
> Reddit's Data API was updated in April, introducing a premium access tier for developers that offered additional features, increased usage limits, and expanded usage rights. These modifications were met with considerable resistance. What a pleasant way of putting it.
- delecti 3y ago
  That should be in textbooks as an example of how to lie while telling the truth.
frgtpsswrdlame 3y ago
I guess I'm thinking, okay, so make them do that? If there really is a type of person out there that enjoys providing the free labor of modding so much that they crumple at even a hint of being replaced, then yeah Steve is going to roll over them.
- guraf 3y ago
  The mods are reopening because they don't want to lose their powers. They know that if Reddit found new mods, the users probably wouldn't notice or care.
  - hedora 3y ago
    What percentage of these new scab mods are going to be trolls, spammers or propagandists though? I'll happily take the mod slot for any subreddit involving Donald Trump, as long as they keep allowing NSFW content.
    - mardifoufs 3y ago
      The mods are ""scabbing"" their own subreddit in this case. The protest was supposed to be about API access making the site better for all redditors, but as soon as the mods had something to lose they quickly forgot that part.
      - hedora 3y ago
        Reddit is threatening to ban the existing mods, and replace them with whoever shows up. I’m referring to “whoever shows up” as scabs.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - Anon_Forever 3y ago
mike_d 3y ago
To any mods facing similar pressure: you can implement ridiculous rules. Like how Reddit is fine with r/Superbowl deleting any post that isn't a picture of an owl. Might I recommend requiring all posts to your sub to tag u/spez, or having an even number of characters, etc. All of which can easily be done with Automod. This lets you to moderate your subreddit and enforce the rules while allowing it to wither on the vine.
- mjr00 3y ago
  ... or just resign as a moderator, start up a Discord/Lemmy instance, and let one of the thousands of people begging to be mods take over the subreddit? Nobody's forcing you to stay on as a mod if you're pissed about Reddit removing third-party app access.
  - tacker2000 3y ago
    Discord is a walled garden without any search indexing. All knowledge is rotting in there unfortunately.
  - arugulum 3y ago
    I don't think this "burn it all down" mentality is helpful. Presumably the mods are protesting because they want a good Reddit/subreddit experience, and the new policies are hurting that. How is handing power over to someone who is supportive of Reddit's new policies helping that?
    - pierat 3y ago
      Out of its ashes, something new will take its place. I was a former lead mod a year ago of a large subreddit. I saw the writing on the wall THEN, and took the sub private, and booted the other mods I brought in. I then started purging content. Not a few hours later, the other 2 mods I invited in messaged the admins, and removed my moderatorship and then banned my account. Those subreddits, no matter how many "mod kudos" you have, were never yours, are never yours, and will always be digital sharecropping. Burn it to the ground. Power is the ONLY message the admins and C levels understand.
freitzkriesler2 3y ago
Good. It's an open secret that mods for the big subs are on the take with moneyed third party interests. Reddit wants in on the action. They should just ban mods in big subs outright. It would improve the discourse significantly across the board.
t0bia_s 3y ago
I hope more and more people will hear about decentralisation and how important it is.
mardifoufs 3y ago
So the moment they felt like they'd lose control of whatever power they have on Reddit, they quickly caved? Damn I thought mods were doing all of this for the community, I guess they really don't want to lose their moderator status. Which is weird since they are basically caving in because they were threatened of not having to do volunteer work for the website they are boycotting. It makes no sense, why not just keep it closed and if they remove you as a moderator... Who cares, the point was to close indefinitely right? As always, Reddit moderators always end up being blatantly and obviously motivated by anything but their own community. Users not having access to their community is fine, as long as the mods don't lose their petty fiefdom I guess.
- samus 3y ago
  It would make sense if the mods of /r/apple are Apple employees who do their job on company time. Being replaced as mods would be damaging to their career and there is a possibility that people will be put in charge that Apple can't control. I expect similar behavior from any brand subreddits.
- TMWNN 3y ago
  > As always, Reddit moderators always end up being blatantly and obviously motivated by anything but their own community. Users not having access to their community is fine, as long as the mods don't lose their petty fiefdom I guess. Context for others: There are powermods who "moderate" hundreds of subreddits. This is not an exaggeration. Hundreds. When questioned, they invariably say that they "just watch the incoming queue" or something, and the other mods "do all the work". While likely true in the literal sense (again, hundreds), such answers of course completely evade of the question. Remember, "Most of What You Read on the Internet is Written by Insane People" <https://np.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/9rvroo/most_of_what_you_read_on_the_internet_is_written/ https://np.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/9rvroo/most_...>. This also applies to powermods, assuming they're not being paid on the side to push some ideology. Basically, losers who crave ruling a (as you said) petty fiefdom. Bonus: The classic post in which a mod thinks what he does is worth $175K a year <https://np.reddit.com/r/35orquit/comments/qw1v3e/what_do_people_here_think_of_reddits_moderators/ https://np.reddit.com/r/35orquit/comments/qw1v3e/what_do_peo...>. Be sure to read to the end, where he explains how he "saves lives".

118 points by CharlesW 3y ago

jlpcsl 3y ago

Booo scabs and traitors

smoldesu 3y ago
I don't think anyone expected Apple users to lead the fight against API limitations.
- mig39 3y ago
  I think it's because of the popularity of Apollo. I know that's the only app I use for Reddit.
jrepinc 3y ago
Yeah, so shameful and sad, people without integrity and solidarity in standing for some basic rights
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
n8cpdx 3y ago
What’s the digital equivalent of a giant inflatable rat? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflatable_rat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflatable_rat
ahahahahah 3y ago
Did you read the comments from the actual Apple subreddit community? It's pretty clear that they think the blackout is some bullshit power hungry mod thing that they are happy to see end.
- jlpcsl 3y ago
  So much worse. Then the scabs/traitors boooo also goes for them.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

mfer 3y ago

> "If a moderator team unanimously decides to stop moderating, we will invite new, active moderators to keep these spaces open and accessible to users," This is where things have escalated to.

ahahahahah 3y ago
Yeah, it's kind of crazy how these mods just think they own the subreddits. Like, fuck the communities, I'm upset and I'm going to take my toys home. To be honest, I'd love for reddit to enhance a community's ability to control it's subreddit without needing to cede full control to some power hungry basement dweller.

JustARandomGuy 3y ago

Quote from article: Reddit CEO Steve Huffman… is apparently unaware that Reddit's success is because of the posts by the users that use the service in all of its forms If Reddit starts losing popularity due to this incident (and that is not guaranteed by far) this is going to be the money quote which sums up the entire situation. An unaware CEO unable to understand his own product nor users. With that said I think there is a strong chance that this will end up being a tempest in a teapot - there doesn’t seem to be any immediately obvious damage to the Reddit brand because of the blackout.

superkuh 3y ago
This is the third wave of gentrification on reddit. This has all happened before including reddit kicking off/out mods that closed their subreddits in protest. I know because it happened to me in wave 2. For all the people that leave there are plenty of Facebook refugees trickling in at the same rate. Reddit doesn't want it's power users, it wants Facebook/etc's users and cares nothing for it's original userbase (or culture, as shown by the post-VC capital emphasis on posting to /u/ user profiles instead of subreddits).
- valar_m 3y ago
  > "Reddit doesn't want it's power users" I keep hearing people say this, but why would that be? By "power users" it seems like people are broadly referring to people who submit lots of original content-heavy posts and comments. Why would Reddit not want that?
  - rzazueta 3y ago
    I have a pet conspiracy theory that the leadership there thinks this may rid them of "troublemakers". Huffman's seemingly ludicrous hardcore stance against third party Apps and mods who disagree with him would seem to reinforce this. Basically, they're chasing away the folks who are most likely to cause a ruckus when Reddit inevitably tries to go IPO or otherwise make a profit. Everyone is saying this is in prep for their IPO, but I agree with Huffman's analysis that now is a really shitty time to be pondering an IPO. My guess is he has a checklist of items he needs to accomplish on the site handed to him by leadership to make everything look good for an IPO. He may have realized a lot of these would not go well with the community - this isn't his first rodeo with this stuff - so he applied draconian measures, hardened his heart against the mods and app devs who made the site what it is, and is hoping and praying there will be something left when the smoke clears. And there will be, especially as they force subreddits back into the light and encouraging mods to turn on each other. Basically, this is a loyalty test, and all of the disloyal people are being forced out. The loyal people who will pretty much go with anything Reddit leadership wants will be all that's left, and they're banking that will be enough. Add the influx of Facebook and Twitter refugees who likely see all of this as just nerd posturing, and, yeah, Reddit will likely survive and go IPO. But it will not be Reddit. It will be a sad, corporate shadow of the vibrant community it once was. And it will not last. I honestly believe distributed social media - ActivityPub, BlueSky (ew), or something yet to come - will be the future. It will look like your favorite social media feeds now, but it will act like email, just hopefully with better moderation and spam handling. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, and even YouTube will eventually relent and tie themselves to this ecosystem as a last ditch effort to stay alive, then probably picked apart by private equity vultures in an ignominious final act. EDIT: WOW - within five minutes of posting this, this other news story crossed my transom, more or less confirming my theory. Neat! https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/reddit-blackout-protest-private-ceo-elon-musk-huffman-rcna89700 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/reddit-blackout-prote...

mrkeen 3y ago

> Reddit's Data API was updated in April, introducing a premium access tier for developers that offered additional features, increased usage limits, and expanded usage rights. These modifications were met with considerable resistance. What a pleasant way of putting it.

delecti 3y ago
That should be in textbooks as an example of how to lie while telling the truth.

frgtpsswrdlame 3y ago

I guess I'm thinking, okay, so make them do that? If there really is a type of person out there that enjoys providing the free labor of modding so much that they crumple at even a hint of being replaced, then yeah Steve is going to roll over them.

guraf 3y ago
The mods are reopening because they don't want to lose their powers. They know that if Reddit found new mods, the users probably wouldn't notice or care.
- hedora 3y ago
  What percentage of these new scab mods are going to be trolls, spammers or propagandists though? I'll happily take the mod slot for any subreddit involving Donald Trump, as long as they keep allowing NSFW content.
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    The mods are ""scabbing"" their own subreddit in this case. The protest was supposed to be about API access making the site better for all redditors, but as soon as the mods had something to lose they quickly forgot that part.
    - hedora 3y ago
      Reddit is threatening to ban the existing mods, and replace them with whoever shows up. I’m referring to “whoever shows up” as scabs.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - Anon_Forever 3y ago

mike_d 3y ago

To any mods facing similar pressure: you can implement ridiculous rules. Like how Reddit is fine with r/Superbowl deleting any post that isn't a picture of an owl. Might I recommend requiring all posts to your sub to tag u/spez, or having an even number of characters, etc. All of which can easily be done with Automod. This lets you to moderate your subreddit and enforce the rules while allowing it to wither on the vine.

mjr00 3y ago
... or just resign as a moderator, start up a Discord/Lemmy instance, and let one of the thousands of people begging to be mods take over the subreddit? Nobody's forcing you to stay on as a mod if you're pissed about Reddit removing third-party app access.
- tacker2000 3y ago
  Discord is a walled garden without any search indexing. All knowledge is rotting in there unfortunately.
- arugulum 3y ago
  I don't think this "burn it all down" mentality is helpful. Presumably the mods are protesting because they want a good Reddit/subreddit experience, and the new policies are hurting that. How is handing power over to someone who is supportive of Reddit's new policies helping that?
  - pierat 3y ago
    Out of its ashes, something new will take its place. I was a former lead mod a year ago of a large subreddit. I saw the writing on the wall THEN, and took the sub private, and booted the other mods I brought in. I then started purging content. Not a few hours later, the other 2 mods I invited in messaged the admins, and removed my moderatorship and then banned my account. Those subreddits, no matter how many "mod kudos" you have, were never yours, are never yours, and will always be digital sharecropping. Burn it to the ground. Power is the ONLY message the admins and C levels understand.

freitzkriesler2 3y ago

Good. It's an open secret that mods for the big subs are on the take with moneyed third party interests. Reddit wants in on the action. They should just ban mods in big subs outright. It would improve the discourse significantly across the board.

t0bia_s 3y ago

I hope more and more people will hear about decentralisation and how important it is.

mardifoufs 3y ago

So the moment they felt like they'd lose control of whatever power they have on Reddit, they quickly caved? Damn I thought mods were doing all of this for the community, I guess they really don't want to lose their moderator status. Which is weird since they are basically caving in because they were threatened of not having to do volunteer work for the website they are boycotting. It makes no sense, why not just keep it closed and if they remove you as a moderator... Who cares, the point was to close indefinitely right? As always, Reddit moderators always end up being blatantly and obviously motivated by anything but their own community. Users not having access to their community is fine, as long as the mods don't lose their petty fiefdom I guess.

samus 3y ago
It would make sense if the mods of /r/apple are Apple employees who do their job on company time. Being replaced as mods would be damaging to their career and there is a possibility that people will be put in charge that Apple can't control. I expect similar behavior from any brand subreddits.
TMWNN 3y ago
> As always, Reddit moderators always end up being blatantly and obviously motivated by anything but their own community. Users not having access to their community is fine, as long as the mods don't lose their petty fiefdom I guess. Context for others: There are powermods who "moderate" hundreds of subreddits. This is not an exaggeration. Hundreds. When questioned, they invariably say that they "just watch the incoming queue" or something, and the other mods "do all the work". While likely true in the literal sense (again, hundreds), such answers of course completely evade of the question. Remember, "Most of What You Read on the Internet is Written by Insane People" <https://np.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/9rvroo/most_of_what_you_read_on_the_internet_is_written/ https://np.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/9rvroo/most_...>. This also applies to powermods, assuming they're not being paid on the side to push some ideology. Basically, losers who crave ruling a (as you said) petty fiefdom. Bonus: The classic post in which a mod thinks what he does is worth $175K a year <https://np.reddit.com/r/35orquit/comments/qw1v3e/what_do_people_here_think_of_reddits_moderators/ https://np.reddit.com/r/35orquit/comments/qw1v3e/what_do_peo...>. Be sure to read to the end, where he explains how he "saves lives".