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To me, the weirdest part of Rick Rubin as a producer is that he has no distinctive sound. As best I can tell, there's no way to listen to an album and know he p

To me, the weirdest part of Rick Rubin as a producer is that he has no distinctive sound. As best I can tell, there's no way to listen to an album and know he produced it. I've watched a lot of interviews with Rick and about Rick, and his role seems to be entirely limited to being a muse for artists. He's not technical, he's not a musician, he doesn't really do anything beyond taking naps in the recording studio while the musicians record, occasionally opening his eyes to ask them how they feel. To be honest, it would almost be possible to argue that Rick Rubin doesn't do anything worthwhile if he didn't have an outrageously long and unimpeachable resume to back up his contributions.

deleted 3y ago
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rndmnflnce 3y ago
It's kind of crazy. He's basically a filtered and focused amplifier for an artist as opposed to typical producer/collaborator. he's the ultimate 'PED' for artists!
acheron 3y ago
Yes I've noticed that too. For one example, compare Tom Petty doing Full Moon Fever with Jeff Lynne, and then a few years later doing Wildflowers with Rick Rubin. Lynne has a sound, and it's all over FMF. Rubin doesn't have anything distinctive in the final product of WF, but you read or watch things about the recording and he's talking with Petty about it the entire time.
- musicale 3y ago
  Those ELO albums with Tom Petty, George Harrison, Roy Orbison et al. where pretty good.
criddell 3y ago
It seems like he often takes on a passive role but has no problem being more active when necessary. The story of how he pursued Johnny Cash and introduced him to Nine Inch Nails’ Hurt is one example. I’m reading Rubin’s book now and I really like it. It’s full of his observations and advice which includes not listening to advice. Very short chapters that are easy to read but I try not to read more than one or two a week because I find myself thinking about what I read for days.
- robg 3y ago
  Or the need to get hip hop understood by the masses through a familiar lens - ergo the Toys in the Attic hook into Walk this Way with Run DMC who he had to convince those washed up rock stars would help them sell more records. https://www.loudersound.com/features/walk-this-way-run-dmc-aerosmith https://www.loudersound.com/features/walk-this-way-run-dmc-a...
  - throwaway1004 3y ago
    I think this is truly is Rubin's defining contribution and achievement: the industry leaders had an appetite to expand the hip-hop market to the mainstream and, judging by the general low-effort nature of the "Walk this Way" mashup, I can only assume almost any ol' crap would have gotten the airtime and juice to get over the top. But Rick himself was the guy who could broker these deals with the artists', not some older label suit, but a guy who presented himself more as an artist and collaborator. A guy like that is huge value for stakeholders looking to steer the consumer towards a new product or a cultural trend.
- jskulski 3y ago
  Agreed. He reads his own audiobook and it’s incredible. I keep going back to it.
plastic3169 3y ago
It’s all in the book promoted here. I guess he gives artists space and permission to be their best selves. Most of the time he seems to like removing things rather than adding. But most of all he talks about being the ”first listener” who is trying to figure out what is the essence of the piece and how to bring it out.
- b33j0r 3y ago
  The book is so interesting that I actually paid full price at an airport. Highly recommended. He even talks about things that never occurred to me, like how he tried to coach his artists into a flow by making sure they had everything from the start, like appropriate shoes! Wish he’d been my mentor. Read it, if you are a creative, or a creative sympathizer!
  - indigodaddy 3y ago
    It’s encouraging to at least hear that they don’t 4x the price of books in airport shops like they do with water, etc..
taeric 3y ago
This is super frustrating when you see the same in colleagues. Specifically, when upper management starts asking why we should keep person X around, as they were involved in a ton of accomplishments, but don't seem to be the driver for any of them.
- hondo77 3y ago
  Suggest they watch "Moneyball".
bryceneal 3y ago
That is a good point. My understanding is that there are different types of producers, and some lean more technical, while others lean more consultative, and Rubin is falls in the latter camp. Contrast that to other more technical producers like Phil Spector, or Dave Fridmann whos productions have a very distinctive sound. My observation is that it seems like his skill is helping the artist see their work in a different way, helping them make creative decisions, and just generally offering counsel around how to make the best possible work. This process doesn't manifest in a specific sound, and each production is different based on the needs of the artist.
- philjohn 3y ago
  See also Trevor Horn. He famously took six months to produce Pet Shop Boy's "Left to my own devices".
robg 3y ago
Great example of the technicians and the artists dismissing the business development guy understanding users. https://www.loudersound.com/features/walk-this-way-run-dmc-aerosmith https://www.loudersound.com/features/walk-this-way-run-dmc-a...
skyyler 3y ago
I remember an interview where people that worked with him (I think Jay-Z?) described him as a "reducer" more than a "producer" which makes sense to me. I've heard stories of artists with projects deep into scope creep calling Rick Rubin in to help cut through all the chaff. It would make sense that he doesn't have a particular sound if his goal is to help the artist make the best possible art they can.
- brandall10 3y ago
  He stated as much in his recent Lex interview - paraphrasing "I get paid for my taste... and besides just saying what I like or pointing out what doesn't work, I'm aggressive at removing what isn't necessary to get the point across".
- danielvaughn 3y ago
  If there were a product manager version of Rick Rubin, I think they'd be worth their weight in gold.
  - skyyler 3y ago
    This is an interesting thought. It seems like in many cultures, bringing someone in to cancel unnecessary features would be admitting defeat. At least, to the PM. I wonder why it's okay to do that with a song but not software. Weird cultural stuff...
    - danielvaughn 3y ago
      Reduction is almost magical. Last year, I was working as a founding engineer for an early stage startup. We were working on a pitch deck, and I was trying to make it really well designed and professional. I'm a former artist so even though I'm not strictly speaking a designer, I have enough visual chops to make it look pretty. So anyways, I put hours and hours of effort into this pitch deck. When we presented it to our advisors, they tore it apart - not because of the visual aesthetics but more so because the content itself wasn't good enough. I was pretty upset that I had spent all this time making it "look nice" and now have to go back and redo a lot of the content, so I told myself "just get rid of everything that isn't 'design'". That way I could just focus on the content itself without having to waste time on the visuals. What happened is that the end result of this process genuinely looked way better than before. When I stripped the design out, the design came to life.
iancmceachern 3y ago
He's like a service animal for artists. He figures out what they need to feel comfortable and safe, to get into that flow state, and keeps them there while they record. I really love him, he's an American treasure. I am so personally grateful for what he did for Johnny Cash.
cocacola1 3y ago
Wouldn’t not having a distinct sound be a good thing? You’d want the artist to shine through I’d imagine.
- jkubicek 3y ago
  Not necessarily, if I'm listening to an album because of the artist then sure, the producer should be transparent and fade into the background. If I'm listening to an album because of the producer, I probably want to hear them add their distinctive touch. Danger Mouse, Madlib and Dan the Automator are examples of producers with very strong individual sounds and I'll make a point to listen to albums they've produced regardless of the artist or genre. I guess listing hip-hop producers here is a bit unfair, since a large reason I listen to any given hip-hop track is because of the production, but Danger Mouse has produced rock albums that have a definitive Danger Mouse sound.
- wesapien 3y ago
  It depends. I like Steve Albini's style. Raw and live sounding but I'd still put Pixies Doolittle over Surfer Rosa, I do Nevermind for In Utero. Checkout Nina Nastasia whom Steve have worked multiple times.
  - djur 3y ago
    That's an interesting point. I feel the same way, but Albini would argue that he doesn't have a "style". His whole concept is being a kind of anti-producer -- he sets up the audio equipment and lets the band play, and his goal is to capture the live sound as closely as possible, whatever that might be.
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danielvaughn 3y ago
I just came across Rick Rubin about a month ago. Had never heard of him before. He's one of those people who, upon hearing them speak, you just kinda get the sense that they're one of the coolest dudes on the planet.
rjh29 3y ago
His ideas are gold. It was his idea for Run DMC to cover Walk this Way, for Johnny Cash to cover NiN's "Hurt", for "99 Problems" to start acapella, and the bridge for "Chop Suey". He's not just passively enabling artists, he actively provides input as well.
friend_and_foe 3y ago
Lack of reverb, especially in drums. He notoriously hated reverb. One of the reasons it's hard to pin him down is because of the impact he had. It's like a fish in water or a nation jot recognizing it's distinct culture. This man, more than any other single man, impacted American popular culture to an unimaginable degree. If you grew up in the 90s or 00s, the music he produced dominated, set the tone, was the soundtrack to the American experience.
- Slow_Hand 3y ago
  His records tend to be extremely "loud" too in a "pushed" or "squashed" sense of the word. Add that to the shortlist of his sonic signatures. Not that loudness is a defining quality, but it's (in my opinion) a short-sighted trade-off for short term impact at the expense of long-term listenability that his records subscribe to.
meowface 3y ago
Just as one example that he definitely doesn't do literally nothing, here's him giving a suggestion that created an iconic intro to a very well-known hip-hop song: https://youtu.be/FqNDYvsOZkc?t=203 https://youtu.be/FqNDYvsOZkc?t=203
bredren 3y ago
I think he is a musician, though he downplays his skill. He told Jack White that he played guitar in Beastie Boys first album. https://twitter.com/jetsetter/status/1574188554787655680?s=20 https://twitter.com/jetsetter/status/1574188554787655680?s=2...
sangnoir 3y ago
> He's not technical, he's not a musician, he doesn't really do anything beyond taking naps in the recording studio while the musicians record, occasionally opening his eyes to ask them how they feel He sounds like the Steve Jobs of music production! He seems to have the unquantifiable gift of having good taste, the faith and respect of the people who work with him.
deleted 3y ago
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deleted 3y ago

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rndmnflnce 3y ago

It's kind of crazy. He's basically a filtered and focused amplifier for an artist as opposed to typical producer/collaborator. he's the ultimate 'PED' for artists!

acheron 3y ago

Yes I've noticed that too. For one example, compare Tom Petty doing Full Moon Fever with Jeff Lynne, and then a few years later doing Wildflowers with Rick Rubin. Lynne has a sound, and it's all over FMF. Rubin doesn't have anything distinctive in the final product of WF, but you read or watch things about the recording and he's talking with Petty about it the entire time.

musicale 3y ago
Those ELO albums with Tom Petty, George Harrison, Roy Orbison et al. where pretty good.

criddell 3y ago

It seems like he often takes on a passive role but has no problem being more active when necessary. The story of how he pursued Johnny Cash and introduced him to Nine Inch Nails’ Hurt is one example. I’m reading Rubin’s book now and I really like it. It’s full of his observations and advice which includes not listening to advice. Very short chapters that are easy to read but I try not to read more than one or two a week because I find myself thinking about what I read for days.

robg 3y ago
Or the need to get hip hop understood by the masses through a familiar lens - ergo the Toys in the Attic hook into Walk this Way with Run DMC who he had to convince those washed up rock stars would help them sell more records. https://www.loudersound.com/features/walk-this-way-run-dmc-aerosmith https://www.loudersound.com/features/walk-this-way-run-dmc-a...
- throwaway1004 3y ago
  I think this is truly is Rubin's defining contribution and achievement: the industry leaders had an appetite to expand the hip-hop market to the mainstream and, judging by the general low-effort nature of the "Walk this Way" mashup, I can only assume almost any ol' crap would have gotten the airtime and juice to get over the top. But Rick himself was the guy who could broker these deals with the artists', not some older label suit, but a guy who presented himself more as an artist and collaborator. A guy like that is huge value for stakeholders looking to steer the consumer towards a new product or a cultural trend.
jskulski 3y ago
Agreed. He reads his own audiobook and it’s incredible. I keep going back to it.

plastic3169 3y ago

It’s all in the book promoted here. I guess he gives artists space and permission to be their best selves. Most of the time he seems to like removing things rather than adding. But most of all he talks about being the ”first listener” who is trying to figure out what is the essence of the piece and how to bring it out.

b33j0r 3y ago
The book is so interesting that I actually paid full price at an airport. Highly recommended. He even talks about things that never occurred to me, like how he tried to coach his artists into a flow by making sure they had everything from the start, like appropriate shoes! Wish he’d been my mentor. Read it, if you are a creative, or a creative sympathizer!
- indigodaddy 3y ago
  It’s encouraging to at least hear that they don’t 4x the price of books in airport shops like they do with water, etc..

taeric 3y ago

This is super frustrating when you see the same in colleagues. Specifically, when upper management starts asking why we should keep person X around, as they were involved in a ton of accomplishments, but don't seem to be the driver for any of them.

hondo77 3y ago
Suggest they watch "Moneyball".

bryceneal 3y ago

That is a good point. My understanding is that there are different types of producers, and some lean more technical, while others lean more consultative, and Rubin is falls in the latter camp. Contrast that to other more technical producers like Phil Spector, or Dave Fridmann whos productions have a very distinctive sound. My observation is that it seems like his skill is helping the artist see their work in a different way, helping them make creative decisions, and just generally offering counsel around how to make the best possible work. This process doesn't manifest in a specific sound, and each production is different based on the needs of the artist.

philjohn 3y ago
See also Trevor Horn. He famously took six months to produce Pet Shop Boy's "Left to my own devices".

robg 3y ago

Great example of the technicians and the artists dismissing the business development guy understanding users. https://www.loudersound.com/features/walk-this-way-run-dmc-aerosmith https://www.loudersound.com/features/walk-this-way-run-dmc-a...

skyyler 3y ago

I remember an interview where people that worked with him (I think Jay-Z?) described him as a "reducer" more than a "producer" which makes sense to me. I've heard stories of artists with projects deep into scope creep calling Rick Rubin in to help cut through all the chaff. It would make sense that he doesn't have a particular sound if his goal is to help the artist make the best possible art they can.

brandall10 3y ago
He stated as much in his recent Lex interview - paraphrasing "I get paid for my taste... and besides just saying what I like or pointing out what doesn't work, I'm aggressive at removing what isn't necessary to get the point across".
danielvaughn 3y ago
If there were a product manager version of Rick Rubin, I think they'd be worth their weight in gold.
- skyyler 3y ago
  This is an interesting thought. It seems like in many cultures, bringing someone in to cancel unnecessary features would be admitting defeat. At least, to the PM. I wonder why it's okay to do that with a song but not software. Weird cultural stuff...
  - danielvaughn 3y ago
    Reduction is almost magical. Last year, I was working as a founding engineer for an early stage startup. We were working on a pitch deck, and I was trying to make it really well designed and professional. I'm a former artist so even though I'm not strictly speaking a designer, I have enough visual chops to make it look pretty. So anyways, I put hours and hours of effort into this pitch deck. When we presented it to our advisors, they tore it apart - not because of the visual aesthetics but more so because the content itself wasn't good enough. I was pretty upset that I had spent all this time making it "look nice" and now have to go back and redo a lot of the content, so I told myself "just get rid of everything that isn't 'design'". That way I could just focus on the content itself without having to waste time on the visuals. What happened is that the end result of this process genuinely looked way better than before. When I stripped the design out, the design came to life.

iancmceachern 3y ago

He's like a service animal for artists. He figures out what they need to feel comfortable and safe, to get into that flow state, and keeps them there while they record. I really love him, he's an American treasure. I am so personally grateful for what he did for Johnny Cash.

cocacola1 3y ago

Wouldn’t not having a distinct sound be a good thing? You’d want the artist to shine through I’d imagine.

jkubicek 3y ago
Not necessarily, if I'm listening to an album because of the artist then sure, the producer should be transparent and fade into the background. If I'm listening to an album because of the producer, I probably want to hear them add their distinctive touch. Danger Mouse, Madlib and Dan the Automator are examples of producers with very strong individual sounds and I'll make a point to listen to albums they've produced regardless of the artist or genre. I guess listing hip-hop producers here is a bit unfair, since a large reason I listen to any given hip-hop track is because of the production, but Danger Mouse has produced rock albums that have a definitive Danger Mouse sound.
wesapien 3y ago
It depends. I like Steve Albini's style. Raw and live sounding but I'd still put Pixies Doolittle over Surfer Rosa, I do Nevermind for In Utero. Checkout Nina Nastasia whom Steve have worked multiple times.
- djur 3y ago
  That's an interesting point. I feel the same way, but Albini would argue that he doesn't have a "style". His whole concept is being a kind of anti-producer -- he sets up the audio equipment and lets the band play, and his goal is to capture the live sound as closely as possible, whatever that might be.

deleted 3y ago

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danielvaughn 3y ago

I just came across Rick Rubin about a month ago. Had never heard of him before. He's one of those people who, upon hearing them speak, you just kinda get the sense that they're one of the coolest dudes on the planet.

rjh29 3y ago

His ideas are gold. It was his idea for Run DMC to cover Walk this Way, for Johnny Cash to cover NiN's "Hurt", for "99 Problems" to start acapella, and the bridge for "Chop Suey". He's not just passively enabling artists, he actively provides input as well.

friend_and_foe 3y ago

Lack of reverb, especially in drums. He notoriously hated reverb. One of the reasons it's hard to pin him down is because of the impact he had. It's like a fish in water or a nation jot recognizing it's distinct culture. This man, more than any other single man, impacted American popular culture to an unimaginable degree. If you grew up in the 90s or 00s, the music he produced dominated, set the tone, was the soundtrack to the American experience.

Slow_Hand 3y ago
His records tend to be extremely "loud" too in a "pushed" or "squashed" sense of the word. Add that to the shortlist of his sonic signatures. Not that loudness is a defining quality, but it's (in my opinion) a short-sighted trade-off for short term impact at the expense of long-term listenability that his records subscribe to.

meowface 3y ago

Just as one example that he definitely doesn't do literally nothing, here's him giving a suggestion that created an iconic intro to a very well-known hip-hop song: https://youtu.be/FqNDYvsOZkc?t=203 https://youtu.be/FqNDYvsOZkc?t=203

bredren 3y ago

I think he is a musician, though he downplays his skill. He told Jack White that he played guitar in Beastie Boys first album. https://twitter.com/jetsetter/status/1574188554787655680?s=20 https://twitter.com/jetsetter/status/1574188554787655680?s=2...

sangnoir 3y ago

> He's not technical, he's not a musician, he doesn't really do anything beyond taking naps in the recording studio while the musicians record, occasionally opening his eyes to ask them how they feel He sounds like the Steve Jobs of music production! He seems to have the unquantifiable gift of having good taste, the faith and respect of the people who work with him.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]