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Well, I, for one, don't fucking care about third party apps (which make money mind you) Reddit is/was my first source of real human information for a lot of st

Well, I, for one, don't fucking care about third party apps (which make money mind you) Reddit is/was my first source of real human information for a lot of stuff (since google is unusable now). And this blackout was really a pain in the ass

agentgumshoe 3y ago
And just like a good old protest, it got it's point across with legal disruption. At least you're aware of the issues now, no?
Y-bar 3y ago
I do care about the third party apps because they assist moderators in doing their job (which has been done for free as a service to Reddit). And more personally, they provide accessibility support lacking both in the Reddit website and app. I am not a mod, and will literally no longer be able to use Reddit as well as I have had over the last years. The third-party developers have provided Reddit with tremendous value which is now lost.
- bogantech 3y ago
  > (which has been done for free as a service to Reddit). Most of them are doing it because they get off on having a tiny bit of power. I couldn't care less about the API or the will of capricious mods - I hope Reddit will hand the subs over to other people
  - super256 3y ago
    If they would only moderate for feeling power, they wouldn’t risk their mod position by going against the only party who can kick them. Honestly, I also think that public forums such as reddit shouldn’t build up a walled garden like this and the information should be free to anyone, regardless whether they use it commercially or for research.
  - Timon3 3y ago
    And those new mods are suddenly not going to need better modding tools? They'll just be happy with whatever Reddit has? It's just the current mods who get off on their power, the new ones won't? Stop for a second and consider: why do these problems exist, and why should they stop?
    - bogantech 3y ago
      You can't change human nature but you can get mods that don't care about this particular issue and when the next ones cause problems you get rid of them too
      - Timon3 3y ago
        > You can't change human nature but you can get mods that don't care about this particular issue Okay, and how will that help you to not get "capricious mods"? > and when the next ones cause problems you get rid of them too And when those ones make problems you get rid of them again? And then again? And again? And again? And again? And again? And again? And again? And again? And again? Are you starting to see the problem?
        bogantech 3y ago
        There is always going to be people that want to be mods
        Timon3 3y ago
        And you think for those people this doesn't hold true? > Most of them are doing it because they get off on having a tiny bit of power. Are you willfully ignoring this point, or do you really think that magically it will work out?
        bogantech 3y ago
        You can't do anything about that. Most of them will will be in it for themselves but when they start getting ideas that they own the place (like the current ones think) you cull them
  - pavel_lishin 3y ago
    > Most of them are doing it because they get off on having a tiny bit of power. [citation needed]
  - gotorazor 3y ago
    I am a regular user on Reddit and not a mod. But I have managed a very low traffic mailing list before. I cannot imagine doing it for free no matter how much ego boost I get. So my question is, if Reddit kicks off all the mods from a sub you frequent often, and ask you to be the new mod, would you do it? And, if it is a busy enough subreddit, would you spend the time those people have been spending, to moderation? For me, that would be no.
- Sylamore 3y ago
  Even as a non-mod the third party apps are simply a substantially better user experience than the official app. The CEO's statements and actions have made it clear that the user, nor the mods are anything other than a metric to be exploited in their business plan. I'm no longer interested in participating in their cattle drive.
bee_rider 3y ago
It is pretty much impossible to protest without annoying anybody, and it isn’t as if they are out there blocking ambulances or something.
cm2012 3y ago
100%. I've definitely been one of the people complaining on Reddit.
Twirrim 3y ago
> Well, I, for one, don't fucking care about third party apps (which make money mind you) Those third party apps are central to how the entire content works, they're absolutely critical for the moderators that try valiantly to diver the tide of pure excrement of content that floods in to the various subreddits. That content you want to be able to see would be buried and gone, or never put there in the first place if it wasn't for third party apps that are crucial to moderators doing their work. Reddit has consistently done an awful job on quality moderation tooling. They really don't seem to give a shit, and just do the absolute bare minimum. The only reason it has managed to survive in the state it is is because others have voluntarily picked up the slack and built the tooling Reddit hasn't bothered to build. Just because you don't see it or use it doesn't mean it's not central to what you get to experience. Think bigger, beyond your direct experience and consider how that directly impacts you.
- arbitrage 3y ago
  > Those third party apps are central to how the entire content works, they're absolutely critical for the moderators This is simply not true. I moderate several subs. 3rd party mod tools are not critical. Mods who claim this is so are really misrepresenting the issue. Power tools for mods are nice to have for some. I make use of automod extensively. The tools reddit provides are adequate to perform moderation tasks. Also, since I guess it needs to be said, I'm not a shill for spez. I don't like the dude, but I'm not a sock puppet. This is all winding up looking like an epic toddler tantrum from a small proportion of the higher-power mod contingent.
  - ilyt 3y ago
    > This is simply not true. I moderate several subs. How big subs ? Number of subs you moderate is entirely irrelevant to the topic
    - lelanthran 3y ago
      Is there any good reason that a single moderator should be allowed to moderate multiple subs? I'd take that as an I dictator of a power hungry mod, not a mod passionate about the topic at hand.
cirgue 3y ago
It is effectively not possible to be a mod of a subreddit without third party apps. I don’t think people fully understand just how awful the native mod suite is for Reddit, and this is what the blackout is really about: the fact that Reddit seems to want to absolutely refuse to support the unpaid labor that makes the site a source of real human knowledge as opposed to a wasteland of bots and trolls.
- cm2012 3y ago
  Except: 1) Reddit says mod tools will remain free on the API (as well as disability tools) 2) Other moderators in this hacker news thread say the 3rd party stuff isn't necessary anyway.
- toddmorey 3y ago
  This is really well said. It feels like a new Apple CEO who views investments in design as frivolous. There are valid points that Reddit needs to improve and adjust to be a healthy business but recent changes have all the hallmark of a company making a dangerous waiver that visitors will stay because, really, where else are they going to go?
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  > It is effectively not possible to be a mod of a subreddit without third party apps. Nonsense. I mod large subs just fine using toolbox and old reddit. toolbox doesn't counter at as third party app. It seems most mods want to mod from their phones and will no longer be able to do so.
toddmorey 3y ago
I don't have a third party app, either, but I do care that a business values its customers and partners... And I'm really getting signs that Reddit feels its only customers / partners are the advertisers. They've made their own website unusable because it demands you use the app instead. And the official reddit app just isn't a good app or an enjoyable app—it feels like a play for them to maximize ads & tracking. They don't have great native tools for moderators—essentially their own pool of free labor. I know these things almost always blow over, eventually, but this has been just another part of the spiral. If you think your only relationship is with your advertisers... someday the advertisers will be the last ones you have left before they too take their business elsewhere.
wesapien 3y ago
Can you give me an example of what you search so I can see what unusable you're talking about?
- sarasasa28 3y ago
  Next time you have a problem with any device you have, or any doubt in general, google and try to get real human feedback instead of having to navigate through dozens of web pages with shitty answers that don't work
  - wesapien 3y ago
    Electronics and gadgets are the easiest to search. As I said on another post, the forums I used to visit back in 2000s-2010s are still around. Reddit is just SEO optimized but not the be all and all for answers for that. Google is still pretty good when I try to use it especially because I have learned some of their search functions and operators. I haven't done vanilla search since I learned them. Bard is nice but not for everything. It always gave me the wrong answer about dates and events for the next NBA game.
isaacremuant 3y ago
Fun fact, those humans who put the info in and make up the communities do care. It's not "evil undemocratic mods", the communities in many subs voted in favor of the protest. I love how many people who seem to complain about the blackout are like "stop whining and go back to produce the content for me". Time will tell if the deterioration of the relationship will make that content you value less likely to exist, of less quality or more inaccesible.
dumpsterlid 3y ago
[dead]

agentgumshoe 3y ago

And just like a good old protest, it got it's point across with legal disruption. At least you're aware of the issues now, no?

Y-bar 3y ago

I do care about the third party apps because they assist moderators in doing their job (which has been done for free as a service to Reddit). And more personally, they provide accessibility support lacking both in the Reddit website and app. I am not a mod, and will literally no longer be able to use Reddit as well as I have had over the last years. The third-party developers have provided Reddit with tremendous value which is now lost.

bogantech 3y ago
> (which has been done for free as a service to Reddit). Most of them are doing it because they get off on having a tiny bit of power. I couldn't care less about the API or the will of capricious mods - I hope Reddit will hand the subs over to other people
- super256 3y ago
  If they would only moderate for feeling power, they wouldn’t risk their mod position by going against the only party who can kick them. Honestly, I also think that public forums such as reddit shouldn’t build up a walled garden like this and the information should be free to anyone, regardless whether they use it commercially or for research.
- Timon3 3y ago
  And those new mods are suddenly not going to need better modding tools? They'll just be happy with whatever Reddit has? It's just the current mods who get off on their power, the new ones won't? Stop for a second and consider: why do these problems exist, and why should they stop?
  - bogantech 3y ago
    You can't change human nature but you can get mods that don't care about this particular issue and when the next ones cause problems you get rid of them too
    - Timon3 3y ago
      > You can't change human nature but you can get mods that don't care about this particular issue Okay, and how will that help you to not get "capricious mods"? > and when the next ones cause problems you get rid of them too And when those ones make problems you get rid of them again? And then again? And again? And again? And again? And again? And again? And again? And again? And again? Are you starting to see the problem?
      - bogantech 3y ago
        There is always going to be people that want to be mods
        Timon3 3y ago
        And you think for those people this doesn't hold true? > Most of them are doing it because they get off on having a tiny bit of power. Are you willfully ignoring this point, or do you really think that magically it will work out?
        bogantech 3y ago
        You can't do anything about that. Most of them will will be in it for themselves but when they start getting ideas that they own the place (like the current ones think) you cull them
- pavel_lishin 3y ago
  > Most of them are doing it because they get off on having a tiny bit of power. [citation needed]
- gotorazor 3y ago
  I am a regular user on Reddit and not a mod. But I have managed a very low traffic mailing list before. I cannot imagine doing it for free no matter how much ego boost I get. So my question is, if Reddit kicks off all the mods from a sub you frequent often, and ask you to be the new mod, would you do it? And, if it is a busy enough subreddit, would you spend the time those people have been spending, to moderation? For me, that would be no.
Sylamore 3y ago
Even as a non-mod the third party apps are simply a substantially better user experience than the official app. The CEO's statements and actions have made it clear that the user, nor the mods are anything other than a metric to be exploited in their business plan. I'm no longer interested in participating in their cattle drive.

bee_rider 3y ago

It is pretty much impossible to protest without annoying anybody, and it isn’t as if they are out there blocking ambulances or something.

cm2012 3y ago

100%. I've definitely been one of the people complaining on Reddit.

Twirrim 3y ago

> Well, I, for one, don't fucking care about third party apps (which make money mind you) Those third party apps are central to how the entire content works, they're absolutely critical for the moderators that try valiantly to diver the tide of pure excrement of content that floods in to the various subreddits. That content you want to be able to see would be buried and gone, or never put there in the first place if it wasn't for third party apps that are crucial to moderators doing their work. Reddit has consistently done an awful job on quality moderation tooling. They really don't seem to give a shit, and just do the absolute bare minimum. The only reason it has managed to survive in the state it is is because others have voluntarily picked up the slack and built the tooling Reddit hasn't bothered to build. Just because you don't see it or use it doesn't mean it's not central to what you get to experience. Think bigger, beyond your direct experience and consider how that directly impacts you.

arbitrage 3y ago
> Those third party apps are central to how the entire content works, they're absolutely critical for the moderators This is simply not true. I moderate several subs. 3rd party mod tools are not critical. Mods who claim this is so are really misrepresenting the issue. Power tools for mods are nice to have for some. I make use of automod extensively. The tools reddit provides are adequate to perform moderation tasks. Also, since I guess it needs to be said, I'm not a shill for spez. I don't like the dude, but I'm not a sock puppet. This is all winding up looking like an epic toddler tantrum from a small proportion of the higher-power mod contingent.
- ilyt 3y ago
  > This is simply not true. I moderate several subs. How big subs ? Number of subs you moderate is entirely irrelevant to the topic
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    Is there any good reason that a single moderator should be allowed to moderate multiple subs? I'd take that as an I dictator of a power hungry mod, not a mod passionate about the topic at hand.

cirgue 3y ago

It is effectively not possible to be a mod of a subreddit without third party apps. I don’t think people fully understand just how awful the native mod suite is for Reddit, and this is what the blackout is really about: the fact that Reddit seems to want to absolutely refuse to support the unpaid labor that makes the site a source of real human knowledge as opposed to a wasteland of bots and trolls.

cm2012 3y ago
Except: 1) Reddit says mod tools will remain free on the API (as well as disability tools) 2) Other moderators in this hacker news thread say the 3rd party stuff isn't necessary anyway.
toddmorey 3y ago
This is really well said. It feels like a new Apple CEO who views investments in design as frivolous. There are valid points that Reddit needs to improve and adjust to be a healthy business but recent changes have all the hallmark of a company making a dangerous waiver that visitors will stay because, really, where else are they going to go?
PrimeMcFly 3y ago
> It is effectively not possible to be a mod of a subreddit without third party apps. Nonsense. I mod large subs just fine using toolbox and old reddit. toolbox doesn't counter at as third party app. It seems most mods want to mod from their phones and will no longer be able to do so.

toddmorey 3y ago

I don't have a third party app, either, but I do care that a business values its customers and partners... And I'm really getting signs that Reddit feels its only customers / partners are the advertisers. They've made their own website unusable because it demands you use the app instead. And the official reddit app just isn't a good app or an enjoyable app—it feels like a play for them to maximize ads & tracking. They don't have great native tools for moderators—essentially their own pool of free labor. I know these things almost always blow over, eventually, but this has been just another part of the spiral. If you think your only relationship is with your advertisers... someday the advertisers will be the last ones you have left before they too take their business elsewhere.

wesapien 3y ago

Can you give me an example of what you search so I can see what unusable you're talking about?

sarasasa28 3y ago
Next time you have a problem with any device you have, or any doubt in general, google and try to get real human feedback instead of having to navigate through dozens of web pages with shitty answers that don't work
- wesapien 3y ago
  Electronics and gadgets are the easiest to search. As I said on another post, the forums I used to visit back in 2000s-2010s are still around. Reddit is just SEO optimized but not the be all and all for answers for that. Google is still pretty good when I try to use it especially because I have learned some of their search functions and operators. I haven't done vanilla search since I learned them. Bard is nice but not for everything. It always gave me the wrong answer about dates and events for the next NBA game.

isaacremuant 3y ago

Fun fact, those humans who put the info in and make up the communities do care. It's not "evil undemocratic mods", the communities in many subs voted in favor of the protest. I love how many people who seem to complain about the blackout are like "stop whining and go back to produce the content for me". Time will tell if the deterioration of the relationship will make that content you value less likely to exist, of less quality or more inaccesible.

dumpsterlid 3y ago

[dead]