8 ms·

Toyota Touts Solid State EVs with 932-Mile Range, 10-Minute Charging by 2027

41 points by pulse7 3y ago

LatteLazy 3y ago
[flagged]
senttoschool 3y ago
How plausible is this? Any EV/battery experts here? Could this battery tech be used elsewhere too? For example, in mobile phones.
- panick21_ 3y ago
  Toyota has been talking about its amazing solid state battery tech since at least 2017 and back then they thought they would have them in 2022. And now the commercialization of these batteries is still as far away as they were back then. And Toyota also talk about them first being used in PHEV suggesting that they expect pretty low volume at first. Even if (and that a very big if) Toyota can have some products, with this in 2027 it will take years and years to get to a serious volume that matters in the EV market. The problem is Toyota is not credible, they have been talking for decades but have never had any independent verification of anything. If they were a startup they would be laughed out of the room. Car batteries and EV batteries are quite different and have different specifications. However in general yes, if Toyota really had figured out solid state technology, it might also improve phones. But they are different, it would be a lot of work both for the battery and to build a manufacturing plant for smaller batteries. In general if you have something that can break into the gigantic BEV market you don't bother with phones, its just distraction, scaling 1 cell to maximum volume is the major focus. There are already other innovations that help improve battery tech in phones, like silicon anodes (Sila for example) that is already going into consumer electronics. Both for consumer electronics and for cars its questionable if Solid state will ever be the correct answer and if so then when it will be dominate.
  - snovv_crash 3y ago
    They finally have a CEO who is happy to go in an EV direction instead of trying to do hydrogen. I suspect it will take a while to get things rolling again, but at least they aren't stalling anymore. They were first movers in this space with the Prius and it's been sad watching them squander that lead.
Ecstatify 3y ago
Toyota playing catch-up.
hjbolide 3y ago
2027 toyota will probably still be catching up with the orders from 2022.
- jbm 3y ago
  This is definitely accurate in Canada, where people are being quoted 8 year waits for the RAV prime. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/car-market-analysis-1.6873747 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/car-market-analysis-1.68737... Toyota can't even produce gas minivans for the market without a similar wait. It is not a credible source of anything right now.
mathgeek 3y ago
As with all future battery tech announcements, hope for the best but assume that it will be some combination of too expensive, too fragile, and too difficult to scale (if and when it even reaches the promised state).
TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
How many cycles? What is transferred power during 932 miles/10 minutes charge? Electric chargers today are not making money because electricity and especially connection fee allowing you more-less random high power draw is immensely expensive. So it is very nice to have potentially 923 miles / 10 minutes, but cost will be multiples of what equivalent in petrol would cost you. If you will find such a charger at a first place.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dtagames 3y ago
How is this supposed to be believable from a company that has been bashing EVs for the last few years, doing everything they can to not make any, not promote them, and tell everyone that hybrids and ICE cars are better?
- itsoktocry 3y ago
  >How is this supposed to be believable What are you saying? That they aren't doing research? That they are straight-out lying? I don't see this as in conflict with their claims that EVs, as is, aren't the future.
  - dtagames 3y ago
    I think they are trying to drag out their EV strategy as long as the market will let them. Since it's nonexistent, that could be a while. It isn't possible to leapfrog everyone in EVs when you've been trying hard to milk your existing factories and products instead of getting any experience actually building and selling them. I owned a Prius when they were new and I fully expected Toyota to become the world leader in EVs. Had they done that, I would also believe this battery story. But not today.
    - WorldMaker 3y ago
      On top of that we know that Toyota's EV strategy was heavily invested in R&D of Hydrogen fuel cells. They made some wrong bets and it continues to show. If the article didn't specifically mention that their plans involved some new formulation of Lithium Iron Phosphate I'd have expected "solid state EVs" to just be fresh marketing hype of Hydrogen fuel cells, because of Toyota's recent history.
- Juicyy 3y ago
  new CEO... new priorities. How is the top automaker on top? making good moves. Toyota has been correct that hybrids have been the best setup for the past 10 and next 10 years. Charging infra is catching up but a major bottleneck. Range too.
dangus 3y ago
Is this their sorry excuse for staying completely uncompetitive on current generation EVs? “Why bother making a competitive EV in 2023 when we know Superman is coming to earth and bringing Kryptonite batteries with him in 2027?”
- panick21_ 3y ago
  Yes. And has been since 2014.
piinbinary 3y ago
Perfect for connecting directly to your neighborhood cold fusion plant (it would be nice if both things happened, but I view them as ~equally likely)

41 points by pulse7 3y ago

[flagged]

How plausible is this? Any EV/battery experts here? Could this battery tech be used elsewhere too? For example, in mobile phones.

panick21_ 3y ago
Toyota has been talking about its amazing solid state battery tech since at least 2017 and back then they thought they would have them in 2022. And now the commercialization of these batteries is still as far away as they were back then. And Toyota also talk about them first being used in PHEV suggesting that they expect pretty low volume at first. Even if (and that a very big if) Toyota can have some products, with this in 2027 it will take years and years to get to a serious volume that matters in the EV market. The problem is Toyota is not credible, they have been talking for decades but have never had any independent verification of anything. If they were a startup they would be laughed out of the room. Car batteries and EV batteries are quite different and have different specifications. However in general yes, if Toyota really had figured out solid state technology, it might also improve phones. But they are different, it would be a lot of work both for the battery and to build a manufacturing plant for smaller batteries. In general if you have something that can break into the gigantic BEV market you don't bother with phones, its just distraction, scaling 1 cell to maximum volume is the major focus. There are already other innovations that help improve battery tech in phones, like silicon anodes (Sila for example) that is already going into consumer electronics. Both for consumer electronics and for cars its questionable if Solid state will ever be the correct answer and if so then when it will be dominate.
- snovv_crash 3y ago
  They finally have a CEO who is happy to go in an EV direction instead of trying to do hydrogen. I suspect it will take a while to get things rolling again, but at least they aren't stalling anymore. They were first movers in this space with the Prius and it's been sad watching them squander that lead.

Ecstatify 3y ago

Toyota playing catch-up.

hjbolide 3y ago

2027 toyota will probably still be catching up with the orders from 2022.

jbm 3y ago
This is definitely accurate in Canada, where people are being quoted 8 year waits for the RAV prime. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/car-market-analysis-1.6873747 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/car-market-analysis-1.68737... Toyota can't even produce gas minivans for the market without a similar wait. It is not a credible source of anything right now.

mathgeek 3y ago

As with all future battery tech announcements, hope for the best but assume that it will be some combination of too expensive, too fragile, and too difficult to scale (if and when it even reaches the promised state).

TheLoafOfBread 3y ago

How many cycles? What is transferred power during 932 miles/10 minutes charge? Electric chargers today are not making money because electricity and especially connection fee allowing you more-less random high power draw is immensely expensive. So it is very nice to have potentially 923 miles / 10 minutes, but cost will be multiples of what equivalent in petrol would cost you. If you will find such a charger at a first place.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

dtagames 3y ago

How is this supposed to be believable from a company that has been bashing EVs for the last few years, doing everything they can to not make any, not promote them, and tell everyone that hybrids and ICE cars are better?

itsoktocry 3y ago
>How is this supposed to be believable What are you saying? That they aren't doing research? That they are straight-out lying? I don't see this as in conflict with their claims that EVs, as is, aren't the future.
- dtagames 3y ago
  I think they are trying to drag out their EV strategy as long as the market will let them. Since it's nonexistent, that could be a while. It isn't possible to leapfrog everyone in EVs when you've been trying hard to milk your existing factories and products instead of getting any experience actually building and selling them. I owned a Prius when they were new and I fully expected Toyota to become the world leader in EVs. Had they done that, I would also believe this battery story. But not today.
  - WorldMaker 3y ago
    On top of that we know that Toyota's EV strategy was heavily invested in R&D of Hydrogen fuel cells. They made some wrong bets and it continues to show. If the article didn't specifically mention that their plans involved some new formulation of Lithium Iron Phosphate I'd have expected "solid state EVs" to just be fresh marketing hype of Hydrogen fuel cells, because of Toyota's recent history.
Juicyy 3y ago
new CEO... new priorities. How is the top automaker on top? making good moves. Toyota has been correct that hybrids have been the best setup for the past 10 and next 10 years. Charging infra is catching up but a major bottleneck. Range too.

dangus 3y ago

Is this their sorry excuse for staying completely uncompetitive on current generation EVs? “Why bother making a competitive EV in 2023 when we know Superman is coming to earth and bringing Kryptonite batteries with him in 2027?”

panick21_ 3y ago
Yes. And has been since 2014.

piinbinary 3y ago

Perfect for connecting directly to your neighborhood cold fusion plant (it would be nice if both things happened, but I view them as ~equally likely)