4 ms·

>Now that we're in 2023, and pretty much everyone is either multiply-vaccinated or has had COVID I'm a facilitator for a men's mental health talking group in m

>Now that we're in 2023, and pretty much everyone is either multiply-vaccinated or has had COVID I'm a facilitator for a men's mental health talking group in my county. Sample size is small and not indicative, but there are a few people who are anti-vaccination, have continued to eschew popular science in favour of their trusted researchers, and are now assigning blame to almost any other person's illnesses as caused by "the vaccine". Edit: I'm getting downvoted, so I should clarify -- I'm not agreeing with this person at all, I'm vaccinated and boosted. Aside: one of the (anti-vaccination, anti-establishment) attendees has said that his (anti-vaccination, anti-establishment) trusted expert told him "the banks will collapse" on June 27th (he mentioned Santander specifically). So, now you know.

sBqQu3U0wH 3y ago
Well, I developed heart problems just after getting vaccinated so it's pretty hard for me not to agree when people speculate that some sudden death, severe illness or whatever at a young age may be due to the vaccination. I know I am biased, but how can I not be?
- asynchronous 3y ago
  Sorry that happened to you, and equally sorry no one will take your concerns seriously because the narrative has already been decided against you.
- petecooper 3y ago
  Firstly, I'm sorry you've developed heart problems. That sucks. I can't imagine how that feels in real life, but I can fully understand how it changes your perspective on a lot of stuff. I should further clarify. My original comment was referring to a person who was saying, essentially, that if a person had been vaccinated, then any subsequent illness was a direct cause of the vaccine. His take was that any pre-existing condition was made worse, and the root cause of any kind of ailment was the Covid vaccine. Black & white, no room for discussion. I can see how my comment could be misinterpreted in a number of ways. I don't subscribe to his stance, but I'm absolutely open to the increasing body of evidence of post-vaccine and post-Covid medical issues that have and continue to arise. I have a friend who was a whip-smart and highly capable gastric surgeon. She was fully vaccinated, then got Covid (positive tests), now has many symptoms of long Covid, and she's medically retired at 34. She has to have 10 minute snoozes every 30 minutes during the day. No diagnosed pre-existing conditions, she was in tip-top health. I have absolutely no pro- or anti- agenda here, I was merely sharing some anecdotal evidence. Most importantly, I hope you can find your way with your health stuff.
- rbanffy 3y ago
  There is a small risk of developing myocarditis after being vaccinated, but the risk of dying of COVID in the US, for instance, was of 1.1% after being diagnosed. I’m really sorry you are going through this. People didn’t have time to better test the vaccines to ensure their safety before having to use them to prevent massive loss of life due to the disease. Perhaps we’ll find ways to alleviate the issues the vaccines caused, or even fix them, as the number of cases is significant and, with that, they can be better studied and the mechanisms better understood.
  - Fervicus 3y ago
    And what was the risk for people under 40?
  - chasd00 3y ago
    My little sister developed carditis. She went from not feeling good to emergency heart valve replacement surgery in about 5 days.
  - nradov 3y ago
    You are spreading misinformation. The fatality rate in the US was never as high as 1.1%. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html#est-infections https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...
    - Spooky23 3y ago
      I don’t think “misinformation” is appropriate. Given the novel nature and chaos with COVID, the limitations with best effort, rushed information, etc there were a lot of different numbers thrown around for various cohorts, etc. Figures like 1.1% were definitely cited, especially in the early days where the initial iteration of the virus devastated congregate living and other settings. It also took about 6 months for best practices for acute management of hospitalized patients were developed. Many people died as a result who would not have after 2021. We’re all laymen here.
      - 3y ago
- notacoward 3y ago
  > may be due to the vaccination Emphasis on may, or might. Your experience is certainly valid, and I'm sorry you have to go through this, but it's still a sample of one with no theory of causation. If a certain percentage of people are vaccinated, and a certain percentage of people develop heart problems regardless of vaccination, a few of those people will develop those problems immediately after vaccination. Such things can be just statistical accidents. If I developed heart problems at 58, after years of poor diet and other bad habits, I don't think I'd ascribe it to one discrete recent event unless I was predisposed to believe that the two were related. Therefore, I think it's worth asking: did (or do) you have any such predisposition?
  - saalweachter 3y ago
    Eh, it's totally fair to draw a connection between Guillain-Barre, myocarditis, etc, and vaccination. They are all fundamentally the immune system overreacting and attacking your own tissues, and the vaccines are provoking an immune response. There's a clear mechanism for this to happen, so it's not shocking or a mystery. The reason we accept this risk and get vaccines anyway is that all of these same conditions occur at higher rates when you are naively exposed to a virus. Myocarditis rates, for instance, are roughly 10x higher in any age group when you get COVID (without a prior vaccination or infection) than if you get a vaccine. So if you aren't likely to be exposed to a particular virus, it's totally reasonable to not get vaccinated for it, just because there are side effects. I haven't been vaccinated for any of the various tropical diseases, for instance, because I don't travel anywhere. I haven't been vaccinated for rabies, because I'm not a vet and don't go spelunking. There's no point in rolling the dice on side effects when I have essentially no chance of contracting the diseases. Once it became clear that everyone is going to be exposed to COVID, you stopped having the option to avoid rolling the dice on myocarditis or other immune-system disorders; it's just a matter of whether you want to roll the dice with a vaccine, or wait and roll them with your first infection, and have 10x the likelihood of getting hit with one of them.
  - sBqQu3U0wH 3y ago
    >predisposition Honestly, I didn't have any strong opinions and just did what everyone else did. Moreover, it was inconvenient that I could not enter to a grocery store without proof of vaccination so there is that. I am 26. I do not and never smoked, do not drink alcohol, maintain a healthy diet (do not eat sweets (except for dark chocolate sometimes) or anything that has lots of sugar, avoid highly processed foods, eat a decent amount of fruits, vegetables, nuts, fish, whatever), exercise regularly and never had any notable health problems prior to vaccine, I am not overweight not underweight. To the best of my knowledge, I never had Covid either. Sure, I do not disagree that predisposition does not exist in such cases as you described, but I just feel bitter and miserable.
- poorbutdebtfree 3y ago
  I know it feels like the entire medical and scientific establishments are against you, but please know that you're not alone, not by a long shot.
- shipscode 3y ago
  At least you're alive, I've watched family members of loved ones die. Vaccine -> Full Body Rash -> Organ Failure within 2 months of the booster. Between that and the "totally not caused by the vaccine" friends who had blood clots, gallbladder and appendix removals, etc... all in their late 20s. All I'll say is I'm happy I never got it.
  - mlyle 3y ago
    > appendix removals Pretty odd to cite something that has always mostly affected people under 30.
hudon 3y ago
The downvotes could be because your comment doesn’t add to the discussion but rather seems to be needlessly stoking some flames…
- petecooper 3y ago
  That's fair, I can see that. That was not my intention.
gumby 3y ago
> Aside: one of the (anti-vaccination, anti-establishment) attendees has said that his (anti-vaccination, anti-establishment) trusted expert told him "the banks will collapse" on June 27th (he mentioned Santander specifically). So, now you know. I have started taking ivermectin to prevent this from happening so don’t worry about your money. You can thank me later.

sBqQu3U0wH 3y ago

Well, I developed heart problems just after getting vaccinated so it's pretty hard for me not to agree when people speculate that some sudden death, severe illness or whatever at a young age may be due to the vaccination. I know I am biased, but how can I not be?

asynchronous 3y ago
Sorry that happened to you, and equally sorry no one will take your concerns seriously because the narrative has already been decided against you.
petecooper 3y ago
Firstly, I'm sorry you've developed heart problems. That sucks. I can't imagine how that feels in real life, but I can fully understand how it changes your perspective on a lot of stuff. I should further clarify. My original comment was referring to a person who was saying, essentially, that if a person had been vaccinated, then any subsequent illness was a direct cause of the vaccine. His take was that any pre-existing condition was made worse, and the root cause of any kind of ailment was the Covid vaccine. Black & white, no room for discussion. I can see how my comment could be misinterpreted in a number of ways. I don't subscribe to his stance, but I'm absolutely open to the increasing body of evidence of post-vaccine and post-Covid medical issues that have and continue to arise. I have a friend who was a whip-smart and highly capable gastric surgeon. She was fully vaccinated, then got Covid (positive tests), now has many symptoms of long Covid, and she's medically retired at 34. She has to have 10 minute snoozes every 30 minutes during the day. No diagnosed pre-existing conditions, she was in tip-top health. I have absolutely no pro- or anti- agenda here, I was merely sharing some anecdotal evidence. Most importantly, I hope you can find your way with your health stuff.
rbanffy 3y ago
There is a small risk of developing myocarditis after being vaccinated, but the risk of dying of COVID in the US, for instance, was of 1.1% after being diagnosed. I’m really sorry you are going through this. People didn’t have time to better test the vaccines to ensure their safety before having to use them to prevent massive loss of life due to the disease. Perhaps we’ll find ways to alleviate the issues the vaccines caused, or even fix them, as the number of cases is significant and, with that, they can be better studied and the mechanisms better understood.
- Fervicus 3y ago
  And what was the risk for people under 40?
- chasd00 3y ago
  My little sister developed carditis. She went from not feeling good to emergency heart valve replacement surgery in about 5 days.
- nradov 3y ago
  You are spreading misinformation. The fatality rate in the US was never as high as 1.1%. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html#est-infections https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...
  - Spooky23 3y ago
    I don’t think “misinformation” is appropriate. Given the novel nature and chaos with COVID, the limitations with best effort, rushed information, etc there were a lot of different numbers thrown around for various cohorts, etc. Figures like 1.1% were definitely cited, especially in the early days where the initial iteration of the virus devastated congregate living and other settings. It also took about 6 months for best practices for acute management of hospitalized patients were developed. Many people died as a result who would not have after 2021. We’re all laymen here.
    - 3y ago
notacoward 3y ago
> may be due to the vaccination Emphasis on may, or might. Your experience is certainly valid, and I'm sorry you have to go through this, but it's still a sample of one with no theory of causation. If a certain percentage of people are vaccinated, and a certain percentage of people develop heart problems regardless of vaccination, a few of those people will develop those problems immediately after vaccination. Such things can be just statistical accidents. If I developed heart problems at 58, after years of poor diet and other bad habits, I don't think I'd ascribe it to one discrete recent event unless I was predisposed to believe that the two were related. Therefore, I think it's worth asking: did (or do) you have any such predisposition?
- saalweachter 3y ago
  Eh, it's totally fair to draw a connection between Guillain-Barre, myocarditis, etc, and vaccination. They are all fundamentally the immune system overreacting and attacking your own tissues, and the vaccines are provoking an immune response. There's a clear mechanism for this to happen, so it's not shocking or a mystery. The reason we accept this risk and get vaccines anyway is that all of these same conditions occur at higher rates when you are naively exposed to a virus. Myocarditis rates, for instance, are roughly 10x higher in any age group when you get COVID (without a prior vaccination or infection) than if you get a vaccine. So if you aren't likely to be exposed to a particular virus, it's totally reasonable to not get vaccinated for it, just because there are side effects. I haven't been vaccinated for any of the various tropical diseases, for instance, because I don't travel anywhere. I haven't been vaccinated for rabies, because I'm not a vet and don't go spelunking. There's no point in rolling the dice on side effects when I have essentially no chance of contracting the diseases. Once it became clear that everyone is going to be exposed to COVID, you stopped having the option to avoid rolling the dice on myocarditis or other immune-system disorders; it's just a matter of whether you want to roll the dice with a vaccine, or wait and roll them with your first infection, and have 10x the likelihood of getting hit with one of them.
- sBqQu3U0wH 3y ago
  >predisposition Honestly, I didn't have any strong opinions and just did what everyone else did. Moreover, it was inconvenient that I could not enter to a grocery store without proof of vaccination so there is that. I am 26. I do not and never smoked, do not drink alcohol, maintain a healthy diet (do not eat sweets (except for dark chocolate sometimes) or anything that has lots of sugar, avoid highly processed foods, eat a decent amount of fruits, vegetables, nuts, fish, whatever), exercise regularly and never had any notable health problems prior to vaccine, I am not overweight not underweight. To the best of my knowledge, I never had Covid either. Sure, I do not disagree that predisposition does not exist in such cases as you described, but I just feel bitter and miserable.
poorbutdebtfree 3y ago
I know it feels like the entire medical and scientific establishments are against you, but please know that you're not alone, not by a long shot.
shipscode 3y ago
At least you're alive, I've watched family members of loved ones die. Vaccine -> Full Body Rash -> Organ Failure within 2 months of the booster. Between that and the "totally not caused by the vaccine" friends who had blood clots, gallbladder and appendix removals, etc... all in their late 20s. All I'll say is I'm happy I never got it.
- mlyle 3y ago
  > appendix removals Pretty odd to cite something that has always mostly affected people under 30.

hudon 3y ago

The downvotes could be because your comment doesn’t add to the discussion but rather seems to be needlessly stoking some flames…

petecooper 3y ago
That's fair, I can see that. That was not my intention.

gumby 3y ago

> Aside: one of the (anti-vaccination, anti-establishment) attendees has said that his (anti-vaccination, anti-establishment) trusted expert told him "the banks will collapse" on June 27th (he mentioned Santander specifically). So, now you know. I have started taking ivermectin to prevent this from happening so don’t worry about your money. You can thank me later.