5 ms·

There are literally thousands of studies about long COVID- unless you believe they were all hallucinations by people who shouldn't be in academia, this is very

There are literally thousands of studies about long COVID- unless you believe they were all hallucinations by people who shouldn't be in academia, this is very much so not the "first" really solid evidence. I've seen evidence of increased all-cause mortality, arterial stiffness, reduced physical fitness, and much, much more. All of which is in the first place only necessary because a core pillar of healthcare is the neglect and misattribution of mind-affecting disorders as psychosomatic. I know people after brain injury now being treated for "depression" instead of pituitary dysfunction that occurs in ~80% of cases.

Sakos 3y ago
I think you're misinterpreting it. The full quote: > Long Covid is looking less like a cloudy mass of speculation and shoulder-shrugging, and more like a problem that medical science can start to unravel, using the tools we already have: > When a disease is too poorly defined, it follows that it is almost impossible to modify either the incidence of that disease or the distribution of its outcomes—that is, unless the treatment effect is so great, and the true target population so common in the assembled denominator, that any corresponding signal dilutions are offset. The present study suggests that, even with definitions as amorphous and heterogenous as those currently in use for diagnosing long COVID, there was to be found within this study population an ample cohort of individuals with syndromes similar enough that disease incidence could be modified, and metformin appeared to achieve that. Furthermore, the finding that long COVID is modifiable, although here showing prevention, offers hope. . . This is definitely the first time I've seen anything showing a reliable effect on long Covid. Pretty much everything else I've seen has been a collective shoulder shrug of "well, we saw this, and it's maybe something about Covid, but we really don't know, and we have no idea how to treat this" and a bunch of people saying "it's just a possible side effect of an infection, we've been seeing this for decades". I have no idea how you can dismiss this as something we already know and that this isn't a positive and meaningful step forward.
- hilbertseries 3y ago
  You’re not paying attention if you think this is the first evidence of long covid. There’s been significant strides towards understanding long covid in terms of microclots and viral persistence. https://cardiab.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12933-021-01359-7 https://cardiab.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12933-02... For this pathology long covid can be treated with so called triple therapy for instance https://medhelpclinics.com/uploads/files/anticoagulant-triple-therapy.pdf https://medhelpclinics.com/uploads/files/anticoagulant-tripl...
  - henearkr 3y ago
    And, recently discovered too, inflammation-induced neuron mergings.
  - darkerside 3y ago
    Parent is saying it's the first evidence of TREATMENT. Incidentally, my bet is that many other viruses and bacteria have similar post acute symptoms. I wonder if these can also be measured and treated, perhaps even with metformin. I wonder how much of metformin's magical anti aging capabilities are actually due to fighting off latent infections.
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      They’re quite clearly saying that the effectiveness of the treatment is actually “the first” solid evidence of the disease. Which is wrong, it’s not the first, but it is also pretty darn good evidence to add to the pile, so it’s not that wrong. It’s just the evidence that appears to have convinced GP, which is cool to see happen in real time!
    - hilbertseries 3y ago
      Triple therapy is a treatment that proceeds it. Metformin isn’t a treatment, it’s a prophylactic.
      - darkerside 3y ago
        Yes, a prophylactic treatment. I think my point stands, semantics aside.
bsder 3y ago
> There are literally thousands of studies about long COVID But none of them had a placebo group as far as I know. If another one did, I'd love a reference.

Sakos 3y ago

I think you're misinterpreting it. The full quote: > Long Covid is looking less like a cloudy mass of speculation and shoulder-shrugging, and more like a problem that medical science can start to unravel, using the tools we already have: > When a disease is too poorly defined, it follows that it is almost impossible to modify either the incidence of that disease or the distribution of its outcomes—that is, unless the treatment effect is so great, and the true target population so common in the assembled denominator, that any corresponding signal dilutions are offset. The present study suggests that, even with definitions as amorphous and heterogenous as those currently in use for diagnosing long COVID, there was to be found within this study population an ample cohort of individuals with syndromes similar enough that disease incidence could be modified, and metformin appeared to achieve that. Furthermore, the finding that long COVID is modifiable, although here showing prevention, offers hope. . . This is definitely the first time I've seen anything showing a reliable effect on long Covid. Pretty much everything else I've seen has been a collective shoulder shrug of "well, we saw this, and it's maybe something about Covid, but we really don't know, and we have no idea how to treat this" and a bunch of people saying "it's just a possible side effect of an infection, we've been seeing this for decades". I have no idea how you can dismiss this as something we already know and that this isn't a positive and meaningful step forward.

hilbertseries 3y ago
You’re not paying attention if you think this is the first evidence of long covid. There’s been significant strides towards understanding long covid in terms of microclots and viral persistence. https://cardiab.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12933-021-01359-7 https://cardiab.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12933-02... For this pathology long covid can be treated with so called triple therapy for instance https://medhelpclinics.com/uploads/files/anticoagulant-triple-therapy.pdf https://medhelpclinics.com/uploads/files/anticoagulant-tripl...
- henearkr 3y ago
  And, recently discovered too, inflammation-induced neuron mergings.
- darkerside 3y ago
  Parent is saying it's the first evidence of TREATMENT. Incidentally, my bet is that many other viruses and bacteria have similar post acute symptoms. I wonder if these can also be measured and treated, perhaps even with metformin. I wonder how much of metformin's magical anti aging capabilities are actually due to fighting off latent infections.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    They’re quite clearly saying that the effectiveness of the treatment is actually “the first” solid evidence of the disease. Which is wrong, it’s not the first, but it is also pretty darn good evidence to add to the pile, so it’s not that wrong. It’s just the evidence that appears to have convinced GP, which is cool to see happen in real time!
  - hilbertseries 3y ago
    Triple therapy is a treatment that proceeds it. Metformin isn’t a treatment, it’s a prophylactic.
    - darkerside 3y ago
      Yes, a prophylactic treatment. I think my point stands, semantics aside.

bsder 3y ago

> There are literally thousands of studies about long COVID But none of them had a placebo group as far as I know. If another one did, I'd love a reference.