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All they had to do was make showing ads part of the ToS for developing third party apps, to require login for API access, and make only mass scraping require $$

All they had to do was make showing ads part of the ToS for developing third party apps, to require login for API access, and make only mass scraping require $$$.

JohnBooty 3y ago
All they had to do was make showing ads part of the ToS for developing third party apps, Not a rhetorical question: have any companies done this successfully? It seems like such an obvious solution to me, but I haven't seen it mentioned. One possible shortcoming (from Reddit's perspective) is the fact that the official Reddit app doesn't just show ads, it also collects all sorts of other user behavior data. So for them it might be able more than simply showing ads. That's just a wild guess on my part, though.
- dx034 3y ago
  Can you really make that much money with behavior data? If that was the case, wouldn't we see more sites with few ads? I believe ads bring in the vast majority of money, behavior data helps ad targeting and can maybe sometimes bring in insignificant amounts as well.
  - JohnBooty 3y ago
    Can you really make that much money with behavior data? Good question. I don't know if companies sell behavior data directly or if it just helps them to target ads better and therefore theoretically improve conversion rates.
- proto_lambda 3y ago
  > Not a rhetorical question: have any companies done this successfully? Telegram does this, and I think they're successful with it.
  - OJFord 3y ago
    Telegram? But there's no ads in the official app - are you saying they require them in third-party apps in order to make them a worse experience and push people back to the official one/make money from them if they don't? That'd be.. interesting, but I think I assume you meant something else, not Telegram?
    - proto_lambda 3y ago
      There are ads in the official apps - they appear similar to regular messages in large channels (telegram's few-to-many/broadcasting offering)
- marcosdumay 3y ago
  > So for them it might be able more than simply showing ads. Yeah, and this is them being unreasonable. The insistence on all the large platforms on doing that even when all of their users revolt is childish and killed a lot of platforms already.
dclowd9901 3y ago
So easy to fake those conditions, though, and then you’re right back where you started only with a fun new game of whackamole to play.
Lutzb 3y ago
Fully agree: First exempt personal paid premium accounts from the api limitations & ads. Then the goal is to benefit from the already existing and thriving 3rd party app ecosystem. Make your API serve ads in non-premium API calls and profit share the ad revenue with 3rd party app developers. Optionally allow 3rd party apps to remove ads (paid API calls) and show their own ads, however make your ads more attractive & lucrative for 3rd party developers. In the future I would also like to see that subreddits can gain control of the ads shown in their subreddits (subreddits already understand their audience far better than reddit corporate ever will). Then eventually profit share with moderator teams and content submitter, basically copy youtubes model to incentivize content submitters & good moderation.
pmoriarty 3y ago
This wouldn't solve the problem of their API being used to scrape Reddit to train LLMs.
- hagbarth 3y ago
  Then have different terms for different purposes. Charge LLM trainers and request that 3rd party apps show ads.
  - pmoriarty 3y ago
    How would Reddit be able to tell the difference?
    - efreak 3y ago
      Users don't browse all of Reddit, and they don't browse from wildly varying IP addresses, from multiple ips simultaneously, or from datacenters.
stcroixx 3y ago
Why not instead charge 3rd party apps for the API and let the 3rd party apps show their own adds to help pay for the cost of the API?
badwolf 3y ago
Or just require a Reddit Gold sub to any user who wants to use another app.
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  Indeed. The fact that they didn't do this and the extremely high cost of API access is good evidence that they wanted to kill 3rd part apps outright.

All they had to do was make showing ads part of the ToS for developing third party apps, to require login for API access, and make only mass scraping require $$$.

JohnBooty 3y ago

All they had to do was make showing ads part of the ToS for developing third party apps, Not a rhetorical question: have any companies done this successfully? It seems like such an obvious solution to me, but I haven't seen it mentioned. One possible shortcoming (from Reddit's perspective) is the fact that the official Reddit app doesn't just show ads, it also collects all sorts of other user behavior data. So for them it might be able more than simply showing ads. That's just a wild guess on my part, though.

dx034 3y ago
Can you really make that much money with behavior data? If that was the case, wouldn't we see more sites with few ads? I believe ads bring in the vast majority of money, behavior data helps ad targeting and can maybe sometimes bring in insignificant amounts as well.
- JohnBooty 3y ago
  Can you really make that much money with behavior data? Good question. I don't know if companies sell behavior data directly or if it just helps them to target ads better and therefore theoretically improve conversion rates.
proto_lambda 3y ago
> Not a rhetorical question: have any companies done this successfully? Telegram does this, and I think they're successful with it.
- OJFord 3y ago
  Telegram? But there's no ads in the official app - are you saying they require them in third-party apps in order to make them a worse experience and push people back to the official one/make money from them if they don't? That'd be.. interesting, but I think I assume you meant something else, not Telegram?
  - proto_lambda 3y ago
    There are ads in the official apps - they appear similar to regular messages in large channels (telegram's few-to-many/broadcasting offering)
marcosdumay 3y ago
> So for them it might be able more than simply showing ads. Yeah, and this is them being unreasonable. The insistence on all the large platforms on doing that even when all of their users revolt is childish and killed a lot of platforms already.

dclowd9901 3y ago

So easy to fake those conditions, though, and then you’re right back where you started only with a fun new game of whackamole to play.

Lutzb 3y ago

Fully agree: First exempt personal paid premium accounts from the api limitations & ads. Then the goal is to benefit from the already existing and thriving 3rd party app ecosystem. Make your API serve ads in non-premium API calls and profit share the ad revenue with 3rd party app developers. Optionally allow 3rd party apps to remove ads (paid API calls) and show their own ads, however make your ads more attractive & lucrative for 3rd party developers. In the future I would also like to see that subreddits can gain control of the ads shown in their subreddits (subreddits already understand their audience far better than reddit corporate ever will). Then eventually profit share with moderator teams and content submitter, basically copy youtubes model to incentivize content submitters & good moderation.

pmoriarty 3y ago

This wouldn't solve the problem of their API being used to scrape Reddit to train LLMs.

hagbarth 3y ago
Then have different terms for different purposes. Charge LLM trainers and request that 3rd party apps show ads.
- pmoriarty 3y ago
  How would Reddit be able to tell the difference?
  - efreak 3y ago
    Users don't browse all of Reddit, and they don't browse from wildly varying IP addresses, from multiple ips simultaneously, or from datacenters.

stcroixx 3y ago

Why not instead charge 3rd party apps for the API and let the 3rd party apps show their own adds to help pay for the cost of the API?

badwolf 3y ago

Or just require a Reddit Gold sub to any user who wants to use another app.

AlexandrB 3y ago
Indeed. The fact that they didn't do this and the extremely high cost of API access is good evidence that they wanted to kill 3rd part apps outright.