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This is still incorrect. Seattle did not get rid of Advanced Placement math classes (like calculus), which any student has the option to take and end with a nat

This is still incorrect. Seattle did not get rid of Advanced Placement math classes (like calculus), which any student has the option to take and end with a nationally-recognized test. They did get rid of various gifted/talented programs in middle school, with the goal of getting the majority of students to the same level of math, because the placement tests for the gifted/talented/honors math courses in middle schools correlated much closer to family income than actual math aptitude. (I took one of these tests in elementary school and failed, despite placing in math Olympiad the same year. They were mostly about folding pieces of paper.)

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WalterBright 3y ago
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/manufactured-brilliance-and-opportunity-hoarding-what-the-seattle-school-district-really-thinks-of-its-advanced-learning-program/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/manufactured-brill...
WalterBright 3y ago
> the placement tests for the gifted/talented/honors math courses in middle schools correlated much closer to family income than actual math aptitude I don't know how one could get data on this, because how does one measure math aptitude without a test?
- Timon3 3y ago
  Easy example: if the test results do not correlate with other test results and grades, but do correlate with family income, the likelihood of the test measuring math aptitude is small. It's not hard to come up with examples.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    > other test results What other tests? If those tests are better, why not use them? > and grades Grades are quite unreliable, as they are too easily manipulated (like grade inflation). For example, my high school physics teacher proclaimed that everyone in his classes should get As. He did that a little too loudly, and the administration had to ask him not to do that. Instead, during tests, he'd offer to help anyone answer the questions if they had any difficulty. He was a nice fellow, I liked him, but the grades he handed out weren't worth spit.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Grades might not correlate with aptitude. Actually, a lot of grade inflation going on in K-12 education. Straight A’s aren’t enough to get into even UW these days if you are coming from SPS. That an aptitude test correlated with family income isn’t weird, kids with well to do parents generally get more instruction, resources, and pressure to do well on these tests. All of that is useful in developing actual aptitude, although it is still very unfair.
david38 3y ago
It more related to the education of the parents, not income. But hey, we can’t Talk about that less we admit that lower income Asians magically happen to do well in school.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Is that true? South Seattle is full of poorer Asians who also do worse at school than Asians in north Seattle who are richer. If you go to Asia the inckme correlation is even stronger than in the USA. Poor country kids in China perform just about as well as you would expect compared to rich city kids.

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WalterBright 3y ago

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/manufactured-brilliance-and-opportunity-hoarding-what-the-seattle-school-district-really-thinks-of-its-advanced-learning-program/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/manufactured-brill...

WalterBright 3y ago

> the placement tests for the gifted/talented/honors math courses in middle schools correlated much closer to family income than actual math aptitude I don't know how one could get data on this, because how does one measure math aptitude without a test?

Timon3 3y ago
Easy example: if the test results do not correlate with other test results and grades, but do correlate with family income, the likelihood of the test measuring math aptitude is small. It's not hard to come up with examples.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  > other test results What other tests? If those tests are better, why not use them? > and grades Grades are quite unreliable, as they are too easily manipulated (like grade inflation). For example, my high school physics teacher proclaimed that everyone in his classes should get As. He did that a little too loudly, and the administration had to ask him not to do that. Instead, during tests, he'd offer to help anyone answer the questions if they had any difficulty. He was a nice fellow, I liked him, but the grades he handed out weren't worth spit.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Grades might not correlate with aptitude. Actually, a lot of grade inflation going on in K-12 education. Straight A’s aren’t enough to get into even UW these days if you are coming from SPS. That an aptitude test correlated with family income isn’t weird, kids with well to do parents generally get more instruction, resources, and pressure to do well on these tests. All of that is useful in developing actual aptitude, although it is still very unfair.

david38 3y ago

It more related to the education of the parents, not income. But hey, we can’t Talk about that less we admit that lower income Asians magically happen to do well in school.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Is that true? South Seattle is full of poorer Asians who also do worse at school than Asians in north Seattle who are richer. If you go to Asia the inckme correlation is even stronger than in the USA. Poor country kids in China perform just about as well as you would expect compared to rich city kids.