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Agreed. It's not like there's a shortage of general computing devices. To me the insistence on allowing side loading is akin to walking onto a farm and asking t

Agreed. It's not like there's a shortage of general computing devices. To me the insistence on allowing side loading is akin to walking onto a farm and asking to put a saddle on a pig. (Farmer) "Uh, sorry we don't do that." (Person) "Well why not? I want a saddle on a pig." (Farmer) "Because that's not how we do things around here. You're welcome to buy your own pig and put a saddle on it, but you can't do that here."

_piif 3y ago
There is a shortage of primary driver-ready mobile computing devices which respect the user's privacy. The choices here are Android devices with custom ROMs + microG and daily prayers that Google doesn't go out of their way to break it (which they can very well do since it breaks ToS) or go nuts with SafetyNet or hardware attestation features and lock you out of a lot of (crucial) apps - or worst case just nuke your account if they detect you use such programs. Or alternatively iPhones. I'm unsure why side loading would break the dynamics of their walled garden either. All that does is give both customers and developers the choice of forfeiting the benefits like discoverability, comfort and likely a bunch of App Store-exclusive APIs like IAPs and in return allow access in cases where Apple doesn't approve. I can already guarantee that most developers won't budge an inch from the App Store as the lack of discoverability and the annoyance of downloading an app file and clicking through Apple's warning popups just to install it would effectively kill their app.
kelnos 3y ago
There's definitely a shortage of general computing devices that I can carry in my pocket. Your (very strange) analogy reminds me of when I was in 3rd grade, and we were having lunch. There was a substitute teacher that day. I had peanut butter and jelly (packed by my mom), and started putting some potato chips inside it. The teacher came over, asked what I was doing, and said "stop; we don't do that here". It was a dumb thing for her to say then, and it's dumb to tell us what we can and can't do with our devices now.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- the_overseer 3y ago
  Ferrari has a list of rules you must follow in order to purchase their cars. If you violate the rules they will try to take back your car and anyway you will be banned for life from purchasing another of their cars. For example they only allow a certain selection of colours for their cars. So no, you are not allowed to do whatever you want with your device. That was never something completely true. If I was working at Apple I would propose this feature: if you see the user changing the OS or modifying it in ways that are not acceptable to Apple then the user will be blacklisted from support and ideally from buying another Apple product. I would probably make some big bucks from bonuses. Like that time at the Ferrari dealership when some dumb lady wanted a Ferrari in pink and the dealer told her "No" and pointed to the door: "Don't let the door hit you on your way out". See? The companies are also allowed to tell you "No!". Freedom and all...
zuminator 3y ago
That's the point though. You do buy the pig but they still won't let you saddle it.
- __d 3y ago
  Don't buy their pig then. I mean, how simple is it? You know the deal, everyone knows the deal, and yet you still buy the damned pig and then complain about it afterwards!? I mean, sure .. advocating for better behavior from major corporations is a fine thing to do, but it's hard not to view that as hypocritical if you still buy their products. If you care, shop elsewhere. That's the only complaining that really works.
  - detaro 3y ago
    Or you could consider the possibility that all available options on the market have downsides worthy of critique, and you're not helping anything (except maybe corporate interests) by painting people in a bad light for choosing one of them and still voicing that criticism. It's the same logic that says "why don't you leave the country and move somewhere else" if someone criticizes a government, or goes "curious, but you still buy food" when people criticize food companies.
    - __d 3y ago
      Except the criticism here is of Apple, for preventing "side-loading" (and, presumably, for requiring Apple's certification of the installed binary). For that, there is a clear alternative.
      - allarm 3y ago
        There’s no alternative if you want to keep the ecosystem.
      - detaro 3y ago
        ... a "clear alternative" that has downsides too, that someone might very well consider to be equally bad or worse. Which they somehow only could point out as long as they didn't choose it?
wiseowise 3y ago
iPhone is a not a pig and doing what you want with your device is not putting a saddle on a pig.

_piif 3y ago

There is a shortage of primary driver-ready mobile computing devices which respect the user's privacy. The choices here are Android devices with custom ROMs + microG and daily prayers that Google doesn't go out of their way to break it (which they can very well do since it breaks ToS) or go nuts with SafetyNet or hardware attestation features and lock you out of a lot of (crucial) apps - or worst case just nuke your account if they detect you use such programs. Or alternatively iPhones. I'm unsure why side loading would break the dynamics of their walled garden either. All that does is give both customers and developers the choice of forfeiting the benefits like discoverability, comfort and likely a bunch of App Store-exclusive APIs like IAPs and in return allow access in cases where Apple doesn't approve. I can already guarantee that most developers won't budge an inch from the App Store as the lack of discoverability and the annoyance of downloading an app file and clicking through Apple's warning popups just to install it would effectively kill their app.

kelnos 3y ago

There's definitely a shortage of general computing devices that I can carry in my pocket. Your (very strange) analogy reminds me of when I was in 3rd grade, and we were having lunch. There was a substitute teacher that day. I had peanut butter and jelly (packed by my mom), and started putting some potato chips inside it. The teacher came over, asked what I was doing, and said "stop; we don't do that here". It was a dumb thing for her to say then, and it's dumb to tell us what we can and can't do with our devices now.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
the_overseer 3y ago
Ferrari has a list of rules you must follow in order to purchase their cars. If you violate the rules they will try to take back your car and anyway you will be banned for life from purchasing another of their cars. For example they only allow a certain selection of colours for their cars. So no, you are not allowed to do whatever you want with your device. That was never something completely true. If I was working at Apple I would propose this feature: if you see the user changing the OS or modifying it in ways that are not acceptable to Apple then the user will be blacklisted from support and ideally from buying another Apple product. I would probably make some big bucks from bonuses. Like that time at the Ferrari dealership when some dumb lady wanted a Ferrari in pink and the dealer told her "No" and pointed to the door: "Don't let the door hit you on your way out". See? The companies are also allowed to tell you "No!". Freedom and all...

zuminator 3y ago

That's the point though. You do buy the pig but they still won't let you saddle it.

__d 3y ago
Don't buy their pig then. I mean, how simple is it? You know the deal, everyone knows the deal, and yet you still buy the damned pig and then complain about it afterwards!? I mean, sure .. advocating for better behavior from major corporations is a fine thing to do, but it's hard not to view that as hypocritical if you still buy their products. If you care, shop elsewhere. That's the only complaining that really works.
- detaro 3y ago
  Or you could consider the possibility that all available options on the market have downsides worthy of critique, and you're not helping anything (except maybe corporate interests) by painting people in a bad light for choosing one of them and still voicing that criticism. It's the same logic that says "why don't you leave the country and move somewhere else" if someone criticizes a government, or goes "curious, but you still buy food" when people criticize food companies.
  - __d 3y ago
    Except the criticism here is of Apple, for preventing "side-loading" (and, presumably, for requiring Apple's certification of the installed binary). For that, there is a clear alternative.
    - allarm 3y ago
      There’s no alternative if you want to keep the ecosystem.
    - detaro 3y ago
      ... a "clear alternative" that has downsides too, that someone might very well consider to be equally bad or worse. Which they somehow only could point out as long as they didn't choose it?

wiseowise 3y ago

iPhone is a not a pig and doing what you want with your device is not putting a saddle on a pig.