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>The solution is to bring the rest of homeless services and support to the place where the homeless are. No, it is not. The solution is to reduce homelessness,

>The solution is to bring the rest of homeless services and support to the place where the homeless are. No, it is not. The solution is to reduce homelessness, drug addicts and poverty. If needed create actual spaces for homeless people to go to, where there are actually people/resources which can help them. Turning libraries into homeless shelters and librarians into social workers is an absurd policy idea.

WalterBright 3y ago
> an absurd policy idea. The most unforgivably absurd policy idea is when the Seattle public schools got rid of calculus classes because of "equity".
- RugnirViking 3y ago
  Look into that incident further, I think you're mixing a couple separate things. Calculus was moved later in California, not "removed" and the Seattle math thing was outcry over a couple parts where teachers were encouraged to explore the history of maths and the various cultures that shaped it (think Arabic cultures leading to 360 degrees in a circle)
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    Seattle got rid of the advanced placement math classes. It had nothing to do with the history of math.
    - muffinman26 3y ago
      This is still incorrect. Seattle did not get rid of Advanced Placement math classes (like calculus), which any student has the option to take and end with a nationally-recognized test. They did get rid of various gifted/talented programs in middle school, with the goal of getting the majority of students to the same level of math, because the placement tests for the gifted/talented/honors math courses in middle schools correlated much closer to family income than actual math aptitude. (I took one of these tests in elementary school and failed, despite placing in math Olympiad the same year. They were mostly about folding pieces of paper.)
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - WalterBright 3y ago
        https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/manufactured-brilliance-and-opportunity-hoarding-what-the-seattle-school-district-really-thinks-of-its-advanced-learning-program/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/manufactured-brill...
      - WalterBright 3y ago
        > the placement tests for the gifted/talented/honors math courses in middle schools correlated much closer to family income than actual math aptitude I don't know how one could get data on this, because how does one measure math aptitude without a test?
        Timon3 3y ago
        Easy example: if the test results do not correlate with other test results and grades, but do correlate with family income, the likelihood of the test measuring math aptitude is small. It's not hard to come up with examples.
        WalterBright 3y ago
        > other test results What other tests? If those tests are better, why not use them? > and grades Grades are quite unreliable, as they are too easily manipulated (like grade inflation). For example, my high school physics teacher proclaimed that everyone in his classes should get As. He did that a little too loudly, and the administration had to ask him not to do that. Instead, during tests, he'd offer to help anyone answer the questions if they had any difficulty. He was a nice fellow, I liked him, but the grades he handed out weren't worth spit.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        Grades might not correlate with aptitude. Actually, a lot of grade inflation going on in K-12 education. Straight A’s aren’t enough to get into even UW these days if you are coming from SPS. That an aptitude test correlated with family income isn’t weird, kids with well to do parents generally get more instruction, resources, and pressure to do well on these tests. All of that is useful in developing actual aptitude, although it is still very unfair.

WalterBright 3y ago

> an absurd policy idea. The most unforgivably absurd policy idea is when the Seattle public schools got rid of calculus classes because of "equity".

RugnirViking 3y ago
Look into that incident further, I think you're mixing a couple separate things. Calculus was moved later in California, not "removed" and the Seattle math thing was outcry over a couple parts where teachers were encouraged to explore the history of maths and the various cultures that shaped it (think Arabic cultures leading to 360 degrees in a circle)
- WalterBright 3y ago
  Seattle got rid of the advanced placement math classes. It had nothing to do with the history of math.
  - muffinman26 3y ago
    This is still incorrect. Seattle did not get rid of Advanced Placement math classes (like calculus), which any student has the option to take and end with a nationally-recognized test. They did get rid of various gifted/talented programs in middle school, with the goal of getting the majority of students to the same level of math, because the placement tests for the gifted/talented/honors math courses in middle schools correlated much closer to family income than actual math aptitude. (I took one of these tests in elementary school and failed, despite placing in math Olympiad the same year. They were mostly about folding pieces of paper.)
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/manufactured-brilliance-and-opportunity-hoarding-what-the-seattle-school-district-really-thinks-of-its-advanced-learning-program/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/manufactured-brill...
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      > the placement tests for the gifted/talented/honors math courses in middle schools correlated much closer to family income than actual math aptitude I don't know how one could get data on this, because how does one measure math aptitude without a test?
      - Timon3 3y ago
        Easy example: if the test results do not correlate with other test results and grades, but do correlate with family income, the likelihood of the test measuring math aptitude is small. It's not hard to come up with examples.
        WalterBright 3y ago
        > other test results What other tests? If those tests are better, why not use them? > and grades Grades are quite unreliable, as they are too easily manipulated (like grade inflation). For example, my high school physics teacher proclaimed that everyone in his classes should get As. He did that a little too loudly, and the administration had to ask him not to do that. Instead, during tests, he'd offer to help anyone answer the questions if they had any difficulty. He was a nice fellow, I liked him, but the grades he handed out weren't worth spit.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        Grades might not correlate with aptitude. Actually, a lot of grade inflation going on in K-12 education. Straight A’s aren’t enough to get into even UW these days if you are coming from SPS. That an aptitude test correlated with family income isn’t weird, kids with well to do parents generally get more instruction, resources, and pressure to do well on these tests. All of that is useful in developing actual aptitude, although it is still very unfair.