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As it happens, another big server, Beehaw, just defederated lemmy.world today. So drama has already begun. https://beehaw.org/post/567170 https://beehaw.org/pos
by ihateolives 3y ago
As it happens, another big server, Beehaw, just defederated lemmy.world today. So drama has already begun.
https://beehaw.org/post/567170 https://beehaw.org/post/567170
- tazjin 3y agoWhat's the reason? US culture war stuff?
- open-paren 3y ago"It is too big and we can't deal with that many users".
- omniglottal 3y agoAlbeit indistiguishable, trolls should not be consdered equivalent to users.
- dingusdew 3y ago[dead]
- ihateolives 3y agoSorry, added link with source now.
- archargelod 3y agoBeehaw is moderated by 4 people. There was a wave of trolls from lemmy.world and one other instance, that doesn't restrict account creation. So, they decided to unfederate from those instances atleast as a temporary measure, until there are better moderation options.
- mock-possum 3y agodismissing the ongoing campaign for equal rights as 'US culture war stuff' is awfully heartless, don't you think?
- ZunarJ5 3y agoNothing new for the Fediverse. It'll stabilise.
- TechBro8615 3y agoThis seems like it could be solved by shifting the federation to the client. Let me choose which servers to subscribe to, and let my client merge comment threads when the same story is posted to multiple servers. And let me choose a mod team to filter stories and comments for me. If the fediverse is like email, then filtering should happen on the client. It's not like I expect gmail to "defederate" an email server that's used by people I don't like. I expect it to facilitate my emails with anyone else, regardless of which mail server they use. And I want gmail to do some spam filtering for me, but I expect that I can see the filtered messages and show the filter what it missed or wrongly labeled as spam. If we leave the federation up to the servers, we'll just get a "fragmentverse" of walled gardens instead of a single big one.
- VWWHFSfQ 3y ago> not like I expect gmail to "defederate" an email server I'm pretty sure gmail defeds email servers all the time. IP blocks are the oldest tool in the toolbox
- AnthonyMouse 3y agoThe difference is that email is a one-to-one medium, so it's easy to define spam. It's something the recipient doesn't want. Anyone who sends this or willingly serves users who do is unambiguously a malicious actor, so they get blocked. With forums there are arbitrarily many recipients of any message. A lot of people may not like furries or communists or what have you, but demanding that every other instance ban them as a prerequisite to interoperability is how you kill the network by suppressing everything but the lowest common denominator. This problem is created by tying accounts to instances. Because then other instances, instead of banning the accounts they don't want from only their own instance, can try to get them banned from everywhere by threatening any instance that allows them with disconnection. Which is poison.
- BaseballPhysics 3y agoIt's not "drama", it's protecting their community from an instance that's currently being bombed by trolls. Seriously, the concern trolling around here regarding federation is almost comical. Apparently when major private corporation admins or volunteer mods arbitrarily intervene in the functioning of a platform it's totally fine, but when local server admins do it by moderating locally or de-federating from problem instances (whether temporarily, to deal with a flashpoint problem, or permanently in the case of problem servers), suddenly it's a huge problem and an indication of "drama".
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> the concern trolling around here regarding federation I clicked, excited. I closed the tab when it required me to select a server. I don't want to read up on what rights server admins have over my account, why I should choose one versus another, which servers are de-federating which others, et cetera. This is a real and recurring hurdle to the adoption of these technologies.
- BaseballPhysics 3y agoYeah, definitely better to just blindly click through a ToS on some private corporate social media service...
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> definitely better to blindly click through a ToS on some private corporate social media service Philosophically, no. Practically, yes. Because it actually delivers the product. Creating an ideological and technical filter at the mouth of the funnel is absurd. This is heading straight for either Reddit getting its act together or one of Facebook, Twitter or Substack taking the prize. Because they spent two seconds thinking about onboarding. Perfect is the enemy of good.
- BaseballPhysics 3y ago> Creating an ideological and technical filter at the mouth of the funnel is absurd. So then just pick a large, popular instance and be done with it. You've already made it clear you don't care what the platform's policies are, so why are you pretending this is a barrier?
- sudosysgen 3y agoBeehaw is basically the only server that's super defederation-happy. It will pass.
- comte7092 3y agoThat’s kind of part of the model. Governance is up to individual instances/communities rather than one faceless megacorp. It’s a feature not a bug.
- Loughla 3y agoYes, and what I don't think you're hearing is that Joe Blow consumer doesn't care who is in charge of governance. They care that it's easy to use.
- chongli 3y agoYes. Joe Blow consumer just wants access to all the amazing free content on Reddit. Unfortunately, the people who create that content (1% of users) are currently getting screwed over by Reddit. So my appeal to join lemmy is not aimed at Joe Blow, it’s aimed at the actual contributors who make communities possible. If enough of them switch over then lemmy will gain critical mass, and the rest is history. Joe Blow can go wherever he wants. I doubt he’ll stick around at Reddit when the content stream disappears.
- Nextgrid 3y ago> it’s aimed at the actual contributors who make communities possible Contributors generally create content because they want it to be seen by more than a handful of nerds and don't want it to disappear within weeks because their instance has ran out of money. Those contributors will either stop contributing for good, go back to Reddit (because it's still a better experience than any of the "fediverse" bullshit) or jump ship the second an actually competent company builds a centralized alternative that just works.
- rakoo 3y agoLook at the history of Mastodon. Contributors come in all shapes, but all of them want to be able to create without being harassed, insulted, mocked, trolled. Control over your means of communication is a mandatory step for that. Yes, your audience will be few. But few people listening to you in a wholesome way is miles better than masses barely seeing you, harassing you and overall not being heard. There's always someone who'll compare their audience on the fediverse vs twitter, and the conclusion remains: quality is better than quantity.
- sngz 3y agoits a feature not a bug. calling that drama is disingenuous. They are protecting their own instance from trolls that they don't have the tools / resources to handle. Don't like that they de federated? then join a different instance.
- COGlory 3y agoThis is a feature. Besides, everyone knows how on reddit, joining one sub can result in auto-bans from other subs. How is this any different?