4 ms·

I suspect it isn't that they merely "don't like" other people consuming. They also probably think that increased access (supply) may result in increased demand.

I suspect it isn't that they merely "don't like" other people consuming. They also probably think that increased access (supply) may result in increased demand. I'm not sure, but I do feel that if hard drugs were available at every 7-11 for example, there might be more junkies. Every addict is an incredible waste of human potential.

olejorgenb 3y ago
> may result in increased demand Likely IMO > there might be more junkies Unlikely, the myth of "one-taste of some drugs = instant addiction" need to die.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
mathieuh 3y ago
Is anyone suggesting hard drugs be available at 7-11? I believe all drugs should be legal, but that there should of course be checks and regulations on who has access to the harder drugs that research has shown can ruin people's lives. I say this as a formerly-active heroin addict: the hardest part of my time as an active addict was not having heroin. I was almost entirely functional, I had a full-time job the entire time, but if I was unable to get any for a couple of days it sent me completely spiralling. If had a doctor's note showing I was an active heroin addict which would allow me to purchase heroin OTC at a chemist it would have improved my life immeasurably and made it much easier for me to quit. After all, it was only ever a day or two before I could buy more, and I know even now I could buy some heroin illegally online and have it drop through my door in less than 24 hours. Personally I'm unable to consume any psychoactive substance as I've learnt by now it sends me down a path that gets harder to return from every time, but I believe all drugs should be made legal, and all drug problems should be handed over to the health system rather than the justice system.
- girvo 3y ago
  To add to your point, I’m on the Buvidal once-monthly shot. I get the mood boosting effects (albeit in a much subtler fashion due to buprenorphine being a partial agonist of the mu opioid receptor) of my previous heroin addiction, without all the downsides. Super neat tech too, though the injection stings something fierce.
  - mathieuh 3y ago
    I never even got offered substitutes, I was habitually taking several substances and the addiction help offered where I live basically said they wouldn't give me anything unless I could quit everything except heroin. Ended up doing it Trainspotting style at my mother's house. Glad they work for you though. Is your plan to stay on them indefinitely or to try and get off them entirely?
    - girvo 3y ago
      Ah that’s a shame. The government run addiction clinic here in QLD Australia is brilliant and are even doing a clinical trial right now for mirtazipine as a meth addiction treatment which is super neat. Not sure! I might come off it in the future, but it does have some upsides, costs me nothing, and keeps me on the straight and narrow. Playing it by ear basically, I just bought my first home which is quite exciting :) so maybe in the future I’ll come off it, which is a lot easier to do from the injection than it is the sublingual strips or tablets
- westmeal 3y ago
  I'm really happy you were able to exert control over your life and kick that habit. Stay strong man.
  - mathieuh 3y ago
    Thanks. Although I have to be honest, at almost four years out I have essentially zero cravings so I'm not finding it too difficult. And after numerous cycles of getting clean and relapsing, I recognise what do cravings I get immediately and they don't bother me anymore.
omeid2 3y ago
The notion that legalisation would increase access is one of those things that looks logical on the surface but is completely the opposite in practice.
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  When has legalized sale ever decreased access?
  - omeid2 3y ago
    CFC and Antibiotics are legal with reduced access.
junon 3y ago
If other countries are any proof, the opposite happens.
jterrys 3y ago
After having the displeasure of visiting Frankfurt and having to spend about a month using the main train station... I have to agree. I didn't really understand why junkies would line up at pharmacies until like the 3rd day... until I realized "oh, they get clean needles here". I used to be fairly libertarian on drugs, but having experienced the state of it in the U.S and Germany, and comparing with Asian countries like Singapore and Taiwan, I prefer the latter. I'd rather not see it. I'd rather the streets be clean. I'd rather feel safe going to the metro and having it not smell like urine and feces. If these are the two paths I have to choose, then ban the damn things.
- freedomben 3y ago
  This is the fallacy that the majority of people suffer from: if I don't see it, it doesn't happen. There are tons of functional, contributing people using drugs, but you don't know about it. All you saw are the people who have hit rock bottom and developed serious issues with them, and you've assumed they must be the only ones using dreugs and that drugs inevitably lead to that. It's a common error, but a big one nonetheless that leads to wildly unscientific conclusions. To then make or support policy based on those conclusions is extremely irresponsible.
  - yadaeno 3y ago
    So you’re saying it’s a fallacy because Singapore and Taiwan are filled with high functioning heroin users? Draw a line on a bellcurve, the people on the right can use drugs safely without destroying their lives the people on the left cannot. GP is saying that for hard drugs, that line is a little to far to the right to sustain a clean and safe society so we should ban them all together. That might not be a reasonable option for western countries but lets not act like acknowledging that is a fallacy.
    - freedomben 3y ago
      > So you’re saying it’s a fallacy because Singapore and Taiwan are filled with high functioning heroin users? No, I'm not saying that at all. I have no idea the makeup of Singapore and Taiwan. I am saying that you can't take a heavily biased sample and make conclusions about the entire population. This is a well accepted reality in statistics. It's deeply unscientific and can lead to horrendously incorrect conclusions. Then making policies on those conclusions that can lead to death and/or imprisonment of people is at best grossly irresponsible.

olejorgenb 3y ago

> may result in increased demand Likely IMO > there might be more junkies Unlikely, the myth of "one-taste of some drugs = instant addiction" need to die.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

mathieuh 3y ago

Is anyone suggesting hard drugs be available at 7-11? I believe all drugs should be legal, but that there should of course be checks and regulations on who has access to the harder drugs that research has shown can ruin people's lives. I say this as a formerly-active heroin addict: the hardest part of my time as an active addict was not having heroin. I was almost entirely functional, I had a full-time job the entire time, but if I was unable to get any for a couple of days it sent me completely spiralling. If had a doctor's note showing I was an active heroin addict which would allow me to purchase heroin OTC at a chemist it would have improved my life immeasurably and made it much easier for me to quit. After all, it was only ever a day or two before I could buy more, and I know even now I could buy some heroin illegally online and have it drop through my door in less than 24 hours. Personally I'm unable to consume any psychoactive substance as I've learnt by now it sends me down a path that gets harder to return from every time, but I believe all drugs should be made legal, and all drug problems should be handed over to the health system rather than the justice system.

girvo 3y ago
To add to your point, I’m on the Buvidal once-monthly shot. I get the mood boosting effects (albeit in a much subtler fashion due to buprenorphine being a partial agonist of the mu opioid receptor) of my previous heroin addiction, without all the downsides. Super neat tech too, though the injection stings something fierce.
- mathieuh 3y ago
  I never even got offered substitutes, I was habitually taking several substances and the addiction help offered where I live basically said they wouldn't give me anything unless I could quit everything except heroin. Ended up doing it Trainspotting style at my mother's house. Glad they work for you though. Is your plan to stay on them indefinitely or to try and get off them entirely?
  - girvo 3y ago
    Ah that’s a shame. The government run addiction clinic here in QLD Australia is brilliant and are even doing a clinical trial right now for mirtazipine as a meth addiction treatment which is super neat. Not sure! I might come off it in the future, but it does have some upsides, costs me nothing, and keeps me on the straight and narrow. Playing it by ear basically, I just bought my first home which is quite exciting :) so maybe in the future I’ll come off it, which is a lot easier to do from the injection than it is the sublingual strips or tablets
westmeal 3y ago
I'm really happy you were able to exert control over your life and kick that habit. Stay strong man.
- mathieuh 3y ago
  Thanks. Although I have to be honest, at almost four years out I have essentially zero cravings so I'm not finding it too difficult. And after numerous cycles of getting clean and relapsing, I recognise what do cravings I get immediately and they don't bother me anymore.

omeid2 3y ago

The notion that legalisation would increase access is one of those things that looks logical on the surface but is completely the opposite in practice.

whimsicalism 3y ago
When has legalized sale ever decreased access?
- omeid2 3y ago
  CFC and Antibiotics are legal with reduced access.

junon 3y ago

If other countries are any proof, the opposite happens.

jterrys 3y ago

After having the displeasure of visiting Frankfurt and having to spend about a month using the main train station... I have to agree. I didn't really understand why junkies would line up at pharmacies until like the 3rd day... until I realized "oh, they get clean needles here". I used to be fairly libertarian on drugs, but having experienced the state of it in the U.S and Germany, and comparing with Asian countries like Singapore and Taiwan, I prefer the latter. I'd rather not see it. I'd rather the streets be clean. I'd rather feel safe going to the metro and having it not smell like urine and feces. If these are the two paths I have to choose, then ban the damn things.

freedomben 3y ago
This is the fallacy that the majority of people suffer from: if I don't see it, it doesn't happen. There are tons of functional, contributing people using drugs, but you don't know about it. All you saw are the people who have hit rock bottom and developed serious issues with them, and you've assumed they must be the only ones using dreugs and that drugs inevitably lead to that. It's a common error, but a big one nonetheless that leads to wildly unscientific conclusions. To then make or support policy based on those conclusions is extremely irresponsible.
- yadaeno 3y ago
  So you’re saying it’s a fallacy because Singapore and Taiwan are filled with high functioning heroin users? Draw a line on a bellcurve, the people on the right can use drugs safely without destroying their lives the people on the left cannot. GP is saying that for hard drugs, that line is a little to far to the right to sustain a clean and safe society so we should ban them all together. That might not be a reasonable option for western countries but lets not act like acknowledging that is a fallacy.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    > So you’re saying it’s a fallacy because Singapore and Taiwan are filled with high functioning heroin users? No, I'm not saying that at all. I have no idea the makeup of Singapore and Taiwan. I am saying that you can't take a heavily biased sample and make conclusions about the entire population. This is a well accepted reality in statistics. It's deeply unscientific and can lead to horrendously incorrect conclusions. Then making policies on those conclusions that can lead to death and/or imprisonment of people is at best grossly irresponsible.