5 ms·

If a political will is needed to do X, we need to look again at whether we really need it. Normally stuff that's needed, happens by itself as market forces push

If a political will is needed to do X, we need to look again at whether we really need it. Normally stuff that's needed, happens by itself as market forces push it.

ako 3y ago
Nah, market forces are usually short term, whereas political forces should handle long term needs.
pyrale 3y ago
> Normally stuff that's needed, happens by itself as market forces push it. ...As we can see in our efforts to avoid climate change.
dotnet00 3y ago
Which is why healthcare, housing and education is super affordable, big tech companies are respecting people's privacy and freedom and climate change has been averted.
- nine_k 3y ago
  Exactly! They all lack some of the properties that make markets efficient, or form a market at all. - Healthcare cannot be an efficient free market, where those who can pay most receive the best, and those who cannot pay get nothing. The reasons are pretty obvious. It sort-of-works as an insurance scheme, but currently in the US it's more like a payment scheme (and prices blow up), and in most of the EU is like a redistribution scheme (and amount of care is highly minimized until your condition is really serious). - Housing in desired areas is heavily influenced administratively by zoning and other stifling norms (hello, SF), and also lack of land in desirable areas (hello, Manhattan). If you agree to live far from bustling megacities or posh suburbs, houses are relatively affordable. (But how are you going to earn the money then?) - Privacy is not something you want to sell on the market; the whole point is to prevent it. So market forces can't solve it directly. You can buy e.g. an iPhone that gives you more privacy, or use a paid search engine and, a paid email provider, a VPN, etc if you agree to pay more for preserving your privacy; here the markets work well. - Climate change is again not about trading and competition, because its downsides were not priced into any goods, and mostly are not yet still. Make carbon emission expensive, and the market forces will do their job. E.g. a lot of datacenters are carbon-neutral and powered by solar / wind / hydro just because otherwise the electricity ends up being pretty expensive.
  - sideshowb 3y ago
    Making carbon emission expensive you say? Lobbyists have historically stopped that one, so we're back to an issue of political will. What's your market solution for that one? Making lobbying even more expensive? I guess that's the fixed point of this function
    - HPsquared 3y ago
      I suppose if lobbyists run things we need someone to lobby the lobbyists.
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      > Lobbyists have historically stopped that one Lobbyists don't stop this. Government chooses to listen to lobbyists. I don't understand why people don't blame the government for government failings. Giving them free money from taxes and expecting them to not be bribed is not too much to ask.
      - sideshowb 3y ago
        Sure, it's a government failing. Or looking wider, perhaps a system failing that the only governments who succeed in getting in are the ones that are cozy with lobbyists who either make big donations to their campaigns, or wield influence with the electorate in other ways. I don't know how to fix that, but I imagine it's going to require political will from somewhere.
      - trashtester 3y ago
        > I don't understand why people don't blame the government for government failings. In the end we get the politicians we deserve. If we're too lazy to find the uncorruptable ones, or even run ourselves if all are corrupt, we get corrupt politicians.
    - markus92 3y ago
      > Making carbon emission expensive you say? Lobbyists have historically stopped that one, so we're back to an issue of political will. EU is doing it, with CBAM. Basically internally trading emissions and taxing carbon at the border.
- roenxi 3y ago
  Most of those things are being caused by political will. Healthcare is paralysed by over-regulation. There are lots of easy ways to bring down costs in healthcare that the average entreprenure would love to fix. They don't fix the problems because most of those ways have been made illegal because regulators who adopt a do-no-harm approach that ironically causes more harm than good. In every country I can read the laws of, a doctor and a patient trying to make decisions about healthcare are going to discover that the regulator is in the room 2nd guessing them. Housing and education, assuming we are talking the US, have been flooded with credit by the government. That happens to be why costs are so high. There is no way the levels of money there are the market-optimal amounts. Every so often the housing market tries to shed debt and force people to buy the things they enjoy and the regulators step in with money printing. I'm pretty sure the US even has such a thing as a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage which is insane. I see figures as high as trillions [0] in the things. Big tech the reason we need privacy is because sooner or later there will be authoritarians in charge with a lot of political will, using that data. There is a conversation to be had there; the Europeans have crippled their tech sector and privacy legislation was a part of that. Maybe the upside is worth the costs. Climate change I give you the market would ignore. For the same reason it is ignored politically - nearly nobody thinks it is worth spending real money on to try and fix it. [0] https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/mortgage-statistics/ https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/mortgage-statistics/
  - Panzer04 3y ago
    Flooding the housing market with credit is only an issue because there isn't enough housing so prices are demand driven rather than supply driven.
    - anovikov 3y ago
      But that is caused by nothing but zoning! That's the only reason. Sure, in a token few places like NYC, probably prices would be sky high even without the zoning, but in the absolute majority of places, not at all. Zoning is a politically pushed limitation of construction for the benefit of incumbents - local property owners who want their housing values to go sky high, and they achieve it. It's example of conseqences of government action.
nine_k 3y ago
While market forces may be pushing for it, administrative forces may be pushing in an opposite direction.
- hanniabu 3y ago
  In my experience, admin will go out of there way and to multitudes more work in order to not get anything done
  - TheSpiceIsLife 3y ago
    Administer is the opposite of complete.
  - nine_k 3y ago
    To do work is what they are paid for. To solve the problem which an organization was created to solve means to show that the organization is no longer needed. But this means no more work to be paid for!
hanniabu 3y ago
We really need a lot of things yet nothing is being done about it

If a political will is needed to do X, we need to look again at whether we really need it. Normally stuff that's needed, happens by itself as market forces push it.

ako 3y ago

Nah, market forces are usually short term, whereas political forces should handle long term needs.

pyrale 3y ago

> Normally stuff that's needed, happens by itself as market forces push it. ...As we can see in our efforts to avoid climate change.

dotnet00 3y ago

Which is why healthcare, housing and education is super affordable, big tech companies are respecting people's privacy and freedom and climate change has been averted.

nine_k 3y ago
Exactly! They all lack some of the properties that make markets efficient, or form a market at all. - Healthcare cannot be an efficient free market, where those who can pay most receive the best, and those who cannot pay get nothing. The reasons are pretty obvious. It sort-of-works as an insurance scheme, but currently in the US it's more like a payment scheme (and prices blow up), and in most of the EU is like a redistribution scheme (and amount of care is highly minimized until your condition is really serious). - Housing in desired areas is heavily influenced administratively by zoning and other stifling norms (hello, SF), and also lack of land in desirable areas (hello, Manhattan). If you agree to live far from bustling megacities or posh suburbs, houses are relatively affordable. (But how are you going to earn the money then?) - Privacy is not something you want to sell on the market; the whole point is to prevent it. So market forces can't solve it directly. You can buy e.g. an iPhone that gives you more privacy, or use a paid search engine and, a paid email provider, a VPN, etc if you agree to pay more for preserving your privacy; here the markets work well. - Climate change is again not about trading and competition, because its downsides were not priced into any goods, and mostly are not yet still. Make carbon emission expensive, and the market forces will do their job. E.g. a lot of datacenters are carbon-neutral and powered by solar / wind / hydro just because otherwise the electricity ends up being pretty expensive.
- sideshowb 3y ago
  Making carbon emission expensive you say? Lobbyists have historically stopped that one, so we're back to an issue of political will. What's your market solution for that one? Making lobbying even more expensive? I guess that's the fixed point of this function
  - HPsquared 3y ago
    I suppose if lobbyists run things we need someone to lobby the lobbyists.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    > Lobbyists have historically stopped that one Lobbyists don't stop this. Government chooses to listen to lobbyists. I don't understand why people don't blame the government for government failings. Giving them free money from taxes and expecting them to not be bribed is not too much to ask.
    - sideshowb 3y ago
      Sure, it's a government failing. Or looking wider, perhaps a system failing that the only governments who succeed in getting in are the ones that are cozy with lobbyists who either make big donations to their campaigns, or wield influence with the electorate in other ways. I don't know how to fix that, but I imagine it's going to require political will from somewhere.
    - trashtester 3y ago
      > I don't understand why people don't blame the government for government failings. In the end we get the politicians we deserve. If we're too lazy to find the uncorruptable ones, or even run ourselves if all are corrupt, we get corrupt politicians.
  - markus92 3y ago
    > Making carbon emission expensive you say? Lobbyists have historically stopped that one, so we're back to an issue of political will. EU is doing it, with CBAM. Basically internally trading emissions and taxing carbon at the border.
roenxi 3y ago
Most of those things are being caused by political will. Healthcare is paralysed by over-regulation. There are lots of easy ways to bring down costs in healthcare that the average entreprenure would love to fix. They don't fix the problems because most of those ways have been made illegal because regulators who adopt a do-no-harm approach that ironically causes more harm than good. In every country I can read the laws of, a doctor and a patient trying to make decisions about healthcare are going to discover that the regulator is in the room 2nd guessing them. Housing and education, assuming we are talking the US, have been flooded with credit by the government. That happens to be why costs are so high. There is no way the levels of money there are the market-optimal amounts. Every so often the housing market tries to shed debt and force people to buy the things they enjoy and the regulators step in with money printing. I'm pretty sure the US even has such a thing as a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage which is insane. I see figures as high as trillions [0] in the things. Big tech the reason we need privacy is because sooner or later there will be authoritarians in charge with a lot of political will, using that data. There is a conversation to be had there; the Europeans have crippled their tech sector and privacy legislation was a part of that. Maybe the upside is worth the costs. Climate change I give you the market would ignore. For the same reason it is ignored politically - nearly nobody thinks it is worth spending real money on to try and fix it. [0] https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/mortgage-statistics/ https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/mortgage-statistics/
- Panzer04 3y ago
  Flooding the housing market with credit is only an issue because there isn't enough housing so prices are demand driven rather than supply driven.
  - anovikov 3y ago
    But that is caused by nothing but zoning! That's the only reason. Sure, in a token few places like NYC, probably prices would be sky high even without the zoning, but in the absolute majority of places, not at all. Zoning is a politically pushed limitation of construction for the benefit of incumbents - local property owners who want their housing values to go sky high, and they achieve it. It's example of conseqences of government action.

nine_k 3y ago

While market forces may be pushing for it, administrative forces may be pushing in an opposite direction.

hanniabu 3y ago
In my experience, admin will go out of there way and to multitudes more work in order to not get anything done
- TheSpiceIsLife 3y ago
  Administer is the opposite of complete.
- nine_k 3y ago
  To do work is what they are paid for. To solve the problem which an organization was created to solve means to show that the organization is no longer needed. But this means no more work to be paid for!

hanniabu 3y ago

We really need a lot of things yet nothing is being done about it