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Very interesting essay. Reminds me of how Donald Knuth describes his job: > Email is a wonderful thing for people whose role in life is to be on top of things.

Very interesting essay. Reminds me of how Donald Knuth describes his job: > Email is a wonderful thing for people whose role in life is to be on top of things. But not for me; my role is to be on the bottom of things. What I do takes long hours of studying and uninterruptible concentration. I try to learn certain areas of computer science exhaustively; then I try to digest that knowledge into a form that is accessible to people who don't have time for such study. https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/email.html https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/email.html It's an aspiration for how I want my career to go, though I haven't been very effective at moving in that direction.

amelius 3y ago
Too bad the money always goes first to the people who are on the top, and then you have to hope some of it trickles down to the bottom.
systems 3y ago
I am not under the impression that Don Knuth books are accessible, I am under the impression that they are exactly the opposite His books are books you read them last and you add reading them in your CV as a lifetime achievement
senortumnus 3y ago
Odd question but are you reading Algorithms to Live By? This quote & a related anecdote features in the book. Or maybe this is just a really famous Knuth quote.
- wepple 3y ago
  It is indeed a very famous quote: Cal Newport (OP link) also quotes it in his book “Deep Work”
- nosefrog 3y ago
  I'm not reading it, though it sounds interesting. I found this quote when I was browsing through Donald Knuth's website 10 years ago for inspiration on where to take my life next.
  - hackernewds 3y ago
    what did you find, and what did you incorporate with what outcomes? I'm at that pivot and very curious to know
- b33j0r 3y ago
  I am! It’s on my bedside table. I also made it through the parts of his opus that were published at least 10 years ago. Between the art of computer programming and the art of electronics, man I’ve spent a prolific amount of money and time. I’m so impressed by the underlying talent.
- kamaal 3y ago
  Can you write the anecdote here for us. Reading the whole book for just the anecdote might be a daunting effort.
  - pseudotrash 3y ago
    The anecdote might not be as rewarding unless having sat through the effort.
- melling 3y ago
  It’s really famous and has been discussed on HN in the past. https://hn.algolia.com/?q=knuth+email https://hn.algolia.com/?q=knuth+email
  - hackernewds 3y ago
    Did not know you could do that with algolia. Can you do that with other surfaces that use algolia as well (such as if Amazon used it)?
    - mkl 3y ago
      It's just the search box at the bottom of HN, and is probably provided in this way as a form of advertising (Algolia being a YC company). Some info: https://www.algolia.com/blog/customers/hacker-news-search-algolia/ https://www.algolia.com/blog/customers/hacker-news-search-al...
RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago
> I try to learn certain areas of computer science exhaustively; then I try to digest that knowledge into a form that is accessible to people who don't have time for such study. Then there are the next level of authors who digest The Art of Computer Programming into simpler books for people who don’t have time for such study. Then there are those who digest the books into blog posts. And finally there are those who digest the blog posts into HN comments.
- klabb3 3y ago
  …And finally ELI5 questions on Reddit. All of which are very important for different audiences.
  - pryelluw 3y ago
    It’s like the aristocrats joke but for learning.
    - marktani 3y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aristocrats https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aristocrats
drewcoo 3y ago
Digesting for another's consumption is a little too "professor centipede" for me.
bartvk 3y ago
> though I haven't been very effective at moving in that direction This sentence brings out my curiosity. Why do you think you haven't? What did you attempt, and why do you think it wasn't effective? I've worked for a non-profit scientific institute and now I work as a freelancer, so I guess I got to see both sides.
underdeserver 3y ago
It's really not an attainable career for almost anyone. Not even the vast majority of professors, who juggle the actual research with grant writing, mentoring students, lecturing, organizing and participating in conferences.
- Applejinx 3y ago
  No, you're mistaken. It's not attainable to make MONEY doing it, as a rule. I've been doing just that and still am, in my own field. It doesn't make money but it sure does eventually lead to influence and results. The money gradually creeps up (for instance Patreon, once you have enough influence to pull some patrons) but it never becomes comparable to normal work. If you want to do this but also have some fancy resources, inherit money. That's literally what happened to me, and it's returning to baseline with a moderate boost from having invested what I inherited in tools and materials.
  - darkwater 3y ago
    Your description is still covered 100% by GP's "not for everyone" remark.
    - Retric 3y ago
      If they actually said “not for everyone” then sure, but it was a useful rebuttal to: “not an attainable career for almost anyone.” Many people can obtain financial independence fairly quickly, think FIRE, at which point less lucrative careers are quite reasonable options.
      - jacobr1 3y ago
        People can often take on more than they think. It just requires tradeoffs or sacrifices. Plenty of people that have kids, health issues, multiple jobs, still find the time to better themselves by going back to school or working out to improve health, or volunteering and or building a community program in some way. It just is rare to make that choice relative to our wealth of leisure options. It is easier (and very understandable) to just choose to find some enjoyment in your life by taking what joy you can. Which is why people that "go beyond" are celebrated in media. But it isn't unattainable in the same sense that, say, loosing weight isn't some magical thing that only the few can do. It instead is something hard, something that incentives conspire against, but nevertheless still accessible to most.
penguin_booze 3y ago
> I try to digest that knowledge into a form that is accessible to people who don't have time for such study I'm not sure about accessibility. Almost everyone I know who has the AOCP series, use it has a show piece. I've rifled through the pages myself, and I don't think it's not something I'd call accessible. But maybe I'm not his audience, and/or he and I have different definitions of accessibility.
- bayindirh 3y ago
  It's written in the same vein of Stroustrup's C++ books. It's not a book to be read end to end, in my opinion. It's a tome of knowledge. I tend to open it, find what I need, understand the concept, or dust-up my knowledge and go on with what I'm working with. It's a concise, almost blunt, tome of knowledge, to be queried.

amelius 3y ago

Too bad the money always goes first to the people who are on the top, and then you have to hope some of it trickles down to the bottom.

systems 3y ago

I am not under the impression that Don Knuth books are accessible, I am under the impression that they are exactly the opposite His books are books you read them last and you add reading them in your CV as a lifetime achievement

senortumnus 3y ago

Odd question but are you reading Algorithms to Live By? This quote & a related anecdote features in the book. Or maybe this is just a really famous Knuth quote.

wepple 3y ago
It is indeed a very famous quote: Cal Newport (OP link) also quotes it in his book “Deep Work”
nosefrog 3y ago
I'm not reading it, though it sounds interesting. I found this quote when I was browsing through Donald Knuth's website 10 years ago for inspiration on where to take my life next.
- hackernewds 3y ago
  what did you find, and what did you incorporate with what outcomes? I'm at that pivot and very curious to know
b33j0r 3y ago
I am! It’s on my bedside table. I also made it through the parts of his opus that were published at least 10 years ago. Between the art of computer programming and the art of electronics, man I’ve spent a prolific amount of money and time. I’m so impressed by the underlying talent.
kamaal 3y ago
Can you write the anecdote here for us. Reading the whole book for just the anecdote might be a daunting effort.
- pseudotrash 3y ago
  The anecdote might not be as rewarding unless having sat through the effort.
melling 3y ago
It’s really famous and has been discussed on HN in the past. https://hn.algolia.com/?q=knuth+email https://hn.algolia.com/?q=knuth+email
- hackernewds 3y ago
  Did not know you could do that with algolia. Can you do that with other surfaces that use algolia as well (such as if Amazon used it)?
  - mkl 3y ago
    It's just the search box at the bottom of HN, and is probably provided in this way as a form of advertising (Algolia being a YC company). Some info: https://www.algolia.com/blog/customers/hacker-news-search-algolia/ https://www.algolia.com/blog/customers/hacker-news-search-al...

RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago

> I try to learn certain areas of computer science exhaustively; then I try to digest that knowledge into a form that is accessible to people who don't have time for such study. Then there are the next level of authors who digest The Art of Computer Programming into simpler books for people who don’t have time for such study. Then there are those who digest the books into blog posts. And finally there are those who digest the blog posts into HN comments.

klabb3 3y ago
…And finally ELI5 questions on Reddit. All of which are very important for different audiences.
- pryelluw 3y ago
  It’s like the aristocrats joke but for learning.
  - marktani 3y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aristocrats https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aristocrats

drewcoo 3y ago

Digesting for another's consumption is a little too "professor centipede" for me.

bartvk 3y ago

> though I haven't been very effective at moving in that direction This sentence brings out my curiosity. Why do you think you haven't? What did you attempt, and why do you think it wasn't effective? I've worked for a non-profit scientific institute and now I work as a freelancer, so I guess I got to see both sides.

underdeserver 3y ago

It's really not an attainable career for almost anyone. Not even the vast majority of professors, who juggle the actual research with grant writing, mentoring students, lecturing, organizing and participating in conferences.

Applejinx 3y ago
No, you're mistaken. It's not attainable to make MONEY doing it, as a rule. I've been doing just that and still am, in my own field. It doesn't make money but it sure does eventually lead to influence and results. The money gradually creeps up (for instance Patreon, once you have enough influence to pull some patrons) but it never becomes comparable to normal work. If you want to do this but also have some fancy resources, inherit money. That's literally what happened to me, and it's returning to baseline with a moderate boost from having invested what I inherited in tools and materials.
- darkwater 3y ago
  Your description is still covered 100% by GP's "not for everyone" remark.
  - Retric 3y ago
    If they actually said “not for everyone” then sure, but it was a useful rebuttal to: “not an attainable career for almost anyone.” Many people can obtain financial independence fairly quickly, think FIRE, at which point less lucrative careers are quite reasonable options.
    - jacobr1 3y ago
      People can often take on more than they think. It just requires tradeoffs or sacrifices. Plenty of people that have kids, health issues, multiple jobs, still find the time to better themselves by going back to school or working out to improve health, or volunteering and or building a community program in some way. It just is rare to make that choice relative to our wealth of leisure options. It is easier (and very understandable) to just choose to find some enjoyment in your life by taking what joy you can. Which is why people that "go beyond" are celebrated in media. But it isn't unattainable in the same sense that, say, loosing weight isn't some magical thing that only the few can do. It instead is something hard, something that incentives conspire against, but nevertheless still accessible to most.

penguin_booze 3y ago

> I try to digest that knowledge into a form that is accessible to people who don't have time for such study I'm not sure about accessibility. Almost everyone I know who has the AOCP series, use it has a show piece. I've rifled through the pages myself, and I don't think it's not something I'd call accessible. But maybe I'm not his audience, and/or he and I have different definitions of accessibility.

bayindirh 3y ago
It's written in the same vein of Stroustrup's C++ books. It's not a book to be read end to end, in my opinion. It's a tome of knowledge. I tend to open it, find what I need, understand the concept, or dust-up my knowledge and go on with what I'm working with. It's a concise, almost blunt, tome of knowledge, to be queried.